Bit ideas… Hanging Cheek Snaffle?

Lippyx

Lippyx

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I am at a loss. My boy is so heavy and leans on the bit. He evades it, and I feel like if he was to tank off, I wouldn't be able to do anything. He has cantered off, and although he stopped, it still feels like I am trying to pull up a train!

He is currently in a NS Verbindend loose ring, 12mm, previously before that he was in a KK Ultra 16mm loose ring, both have the lozenge.

I have tried to persist with this leaning, but he is so on the forehand I really struggle. I've tried different hand and rein positions, I've tried "dropping" the rein contact, and it may work to start with, but then the next time I ride him he is back to hanging. Its only on the left rein, although sometimes when he does take up a contact he then pulls down and gets heavy.

I'm wondering if the bit I am using just isn't right for him, considering its meant to lift the front end up, and help stop being on the forehand, its not really helping now.

Ideas on bit? On noseband maybe? Currently in a standard cavesson.
 
This is probably a bit left-field, but have you had his back and particularly his poll checked? My mare used to do this, and I used the NS verbindend, then moved to a hanging cheek snaffle. Eventually we found out she had a big poll problem which required an operation, and then a masked back problem. Now she's been treated she is straighter and doesn't hang on the bit unless she's really tired (and we're working on fitness).
 
It all sounds a bit front end focused - everything you've tried seems to be something to do with your hands. Unless he is working correctly from behind, you will not be able to resolve the problem with him being on the forehand, which is happening because he is not working from behind. I only ever think of a bit as fine tuning - a change of bit can help you to tweak the final picture, but will not resolve a fundamental issue with the horses way of going.

Shift your focus to the back end, and get the motor working first, then you will find him easier.
 
Cowpony - He has always been like this, and has regular back, teeth, saddle checks. He is slightly stiffer down the right side, meaning he does find bending to the left harder, but not completely impossible.

Auslander - He does struggle working from behind, but has got better, he is now tracking up more than he use to. I know the back end is also an issue for us, and he does get a bit dead to the leg. I really have to boot him to get him moving forward, and my leg position has improved and I do try to not "nag" with my leg. I have umm'd and arhh'd about wearing spurs to get him more forwards, but them some people say I shouldn't.

It's really affecting my confidence now, as I just feel we are stuck in this rut and going no where. I know we have come quite far from where I was last year with him. I try to have lessons every week, but I can't always afford them.
 
As Auslander says the focus needs to be taken away from the front end and his way of going in general worked on, no bit will lift them off the forehand that only comes once the weight is taken more on the back end, he is still a young pony and will be unbalanced to a degree therefore he will lean a little until he eventually gains the strength and ability to carry himself properly with a rider on, it can take years for them to fully engage and become truly light in the hand.

I would be encouraging him to go onto a long rein, still with a contact but carrying himself, not you holding him up, dropping the contact will give you a feeling that he becomes light but long term it does not fully resolve the contact or balance issue as he will still find it easy to lean once you pick him back up, I expect a young pony to lean at times and work towards it being less and less it takes many months if not years until it is consistent so try and get a little more each time they work. Plenty of hacking is useful where they can be building up their strength and balance without the pressure to go in circles, you can still do transitions, work on the rhythm, straightness and them carrying themselves.

I don't think a change of bit, if he is generally happy in the one you use, will make much difference, if he does not run off when you drop the contact you should be able to trust him on a long rein and spend time in each session working on this, do plenty of different movements to keep him listening, polework is good for helping them balance and think, a good instructor make be able to help if you feel stuck on ideas.
 
BP - Thanks you are right. I know all this, but seem to have lost my focus a bit some where, and its really getting to me. I guess because I know he can and has worked beautifully before. I am arranging a trusty steed to come hacking with us to babysit us and want to get him out more, I think he is getting bored with schooling, we haven't done much hacking over the winter due to mud and lack or light. When we have hacked he is a totally different horse, and is forward and naturally drops into an outline, so I know its the lack of engine revs.

He has just had a back check and has a saddle check next week.
 
It is easy enough to get the feeling you are making no progress, with the longer days and better weather you should start to get going again, winter is tough and boredom can set in for both the horse and rider, a few fun hacks will be good for you in more ways than one.
 
I would rather back up the leg with a schooling whip at this stage, it is easy for them to switch off to the leg and while spurs may help initially they can soon learn to ignore them as well, a few sessions where you get him thinking more forward, with a flick if he fails to react to the leg, will be best as will getting him fitter, more light in the contact so you are not saying go then holding him back, even if it does not feel like it if he is strong in the hand it will be having a negative effect on him going forward, a bit of a chicken and egg stage many youngsters go through while they are learning how to balance.
 
Lippyx said:
Thanks again. He does sometimes ignore the schooling whip, but I hear what you are saying about he could eventually ignore spurs. Maybe I need a more "flicky" whip!!
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I suspect you need better technique. With EVERY aid you need to make it clear. If he's ignoring the whip you're either tickling him with it or nagging him with it or both.

If he ignores it then use it again sufficiently hard that he learns not to ignore it. He's a youngster. You are teaching him all the time even when you're not thinking about it. You don't need to beat him up but you do need to make it clear that you asked for something and he must react. Then lighten your aid but make it still easy for him to understand.

I'd agree with leaving the front alone and working from behind.
 
jemima*askin said:
I suspect you need better technique. With EVERY aid you need to make it clear. If he's ignoring the whip you're either tickling him with it or nagging him with it or both.

If he ignores it then use it again sufficiently hard that he learns not to ignore it. He's a youngster. You are teaching him all the time even when you're not thinking about it. You don't need to beat him up but you do need to make it clear that you asked for something and he must react. Then lighten your aid but make it still easy for him to understand.

I'd agree with leaving the front alone and working from behind.
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Thanks, I will try to make my aids more clear, so he can't question what I have asked. I just worry when I am riding him his head is stuck out in front, but then like you say, it will all happen once the engine is moving!

Its such a challenge bringing on a youngster, but I am glad I am doing this!
 
He won't yet have the strength in his back to drop down into a "head vertical" position. By leaning, he is balancing on you, rather than using himself. My old cob used to do this before he was sufficiently muscled - occasionally he needed a reminder that he needed to hold his own head up, and I'd completely drop the reins, which meant he did occasionally fall splat on his face but it did stop him leaning. It took a long time for him to be strong enough to work in any kind of outline.
 
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