Bit /nosebands suggestions for naughty pony- help!!

seabsicuit2

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Trying to help a child with a welsh sec C pony that has this horrible habit of setting its jaw and just charging off to the right when it feels like it.

It will be when its coming across a circle or to a jump at the bottom of the school and the pony just literally sets its jaw and flies off- always to the gate

Its so strong when it does this that even I cant stop it doing this let alone a poor little child. It will always try it once with me, then i give her such a telling off and then she doesnt try it agin with me on board, but as soon as the child is back on, she always knows, and you can never quite trust her to just charge off at random moments!!

The tom thumb bit does work perfectly in stopping her doing this, but then the pony becomes too slow and behind the vertical and throws awkward jumps. We then tried a hanging cheek snaffle, but that gave no more control than an ordinary snaffle. She needs an ordinary snaffle to go well in for her flatwork and jumping- anything more severe is too much. But this doesnt help the crossing jaw problem!

Any ideas- I thought of a pricker bit ring on one side? any different nosebands? grackle/flash doesnt work. Poor child is in floods of tears everytime the pony does this and its a typical naughty little sod of a Welsh pony- no amount of training is going to stop her , she will always take advantage of a child rider! She's so strong she's even done it when lunging and you end up loosing her.. unless you have the lungeline attached directly to bit!
 

Kat

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I'd go for another teeth check just in case, a grackle adjusted correctly, get a Mexican one they are easier to get right. Then look at a stronger snaffle, a cherry roller, twisted snaffle, waterford snaffle, Dr bristol, wilkie/bevel etc you could also try a kimblewick, only one set of reins and brilliant with naughty ponies. Then lots of schooling to work on the napping.
 

TarrSteps

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Does she put her head up or down when she goes? Either a standing or a grass rein might help. Is it always to the right? I'd say probably worth trying a pricker then. What have you tried in mouthpieces?
 

LEC

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With all our ponies my mother would put them in a standing martingale and kimblewick especially if they use their necks as we had a wide range of welsh ponies. The curb chain will help with the jaw issue. You can always add a flash strap if need be. Another option might be a full cheek waterford.
 

seabsicuit2

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Thanks all...the pony puts its head right down and just sets her neck/jaw to charge off... would a standing martingale definately help that? Its always to the right, sometimes to the left but its randomly charging off to the right at the top of the open end of a circle or before a jump- thats the problem..

Havent tried much else in the way of mouthpieces...the family are desperately poor and it took them weeks to find a cheap enough hanging cheek snaffle which didnt work out, so I feel bad!

Sounds like a kimblewick would be the next option to persuade them to buy..

T_S - would you put the grass rein on the left side to stop her setting herself to the right?
 

TarrSteps

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T_S - would you put the grass rein on the left side to stop her setting herself to the right?

We had a school pony with a similar trick - he would put his big head down, twist his fat little neck, and leave at speed. Even if the kid didn't fly off the front end initially, he/she was still in no position to stop the redirection.

I made a sort of diy grass/daisy rein (I always thought there were the same thing - what's the difference?) out of nylon dog leads. There was a clip to each pommel D, then the two reins knotted together so they sat on top of his neck, then split apart near at the poll and down through two loops (I used those velcro cable loops) down to the bit. Obviously he couldn't jump anything huge in it but usually by the time the kids were big enough to do that they were big enough, with enough leverage to sort the problem without the rein. It worked a treat as pretty quickly he didn't even try if he had it on.

We had another one (not technically a pony, a 15hh Appaloosa) that very occasionally used to run off in a circle (no idea, although he had done some reining) he wore . . .wait for it (quickly followed by my being attacked and driven out of hho) a double twisted wire snaffle. Tbf, it sounds worse than it is and is actually much less harsh than a single twisted, but it's still a pretty horrific bit and he's the ONLY horse I've ever used it on. But in it, the kids could ride him with a loop in the reins (if they held too much he'd just stop and stand stock still) and he was a star. In a regular snaffle, they didn't have a hope. Courses for horses.
 

seabsicuit2

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T_S- that sounds like it would work! Was your design like this- the buckstop ( which is really another form of Daisy rein)
http://www.stopthathorse.com/productDetail.php?ID=10

That will be great for flatwork .... as for the wire twisted snaffle -do like the idea of trying that because this pony sounds pretty similar to that horse- she is that strong!! Yet cannot use a gag/curb action bit really as she will invert so quickly. Also I cant imagine any snaffle would make much difference unless it was a really harsh mouthpiece so we'll give it a go with a double twisted snaffle, just hope that they are easy/cheap to get hold off- there must be plenty of second hand ones knocking around from the old days!
 

TarrSteps

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T_S- that sounds like it would work! Was your design like this- the buckstop ( which is really another form of Daisy rein)
http://www.stopthathorse.com/productDetail.php?ID=10

Wow, "stopthathorse" has upped its game since the last time I looked. They used to be decidedly hillbilly. :) All the same old stuff, really, but they actually look quite decently made and slightly less horrifying to the judgemental than the usual binder twine material. ;) My diy one was a custom fit (adjusted by the age old method of tying knots :) ) and black nylon so you could hardly tell the pony was wearing it. It split behind the poll and went down the cheekpieces, rather than down the nose, which I think would be less irritating to a horse and certainly less obvious. Dog leads from the £ shop are very useful items!


That will be great for flatwork .... as for the wire twisted snaffle -do like the idea of trying that because this pony sounds pretty similar to that horse- she is that strong!! Yet cannot use a gag/curb action bit really as she will invert so quickly. Also I cant imagine any snaffle would make much difference unless it was a really harsh mouthpiece so we'll give it a go with a double twisted snaffle, just hope that they are easy/cheap to get hold off- there must be plenty of second hand ones knocking around from the old days!

Bizarrely, it's not THAT awful because the way it's built means that the area across the bars is flat and because it's strands of round metal (mine is quite thick, not actual wire - although I'm sure they're out there) there isn't an edge like on a twisted or triangle snaffle. It also works like a scissor bit a the two joints are offset so it doesn't "close up" like a standard snaffle. It just freaks people out. ;) I wouldn't use it to ride a nice horse in but different rules apply for tiny children being carted by evil ponies! As I said, with the Appaloosa, he just had to be wearing it and he'd go around with a loop in the reins. I could ride him in anything and he never put a foot wrong. But one of our instructors pitched a fit one day and put him in a smooth snaffle and it was incredible to watch - he trotted once around the ring good as gold . . . then the ears went back and he tore across the school to try to eat poor little Spotty pony, the object of his (and horses in general) rage, completely ignoring the terrified child. Twisted back in, back to angelic. :)

I think I have mine here but it will be at least a 5" so too big but if the pony isn't too tiny you're welcome to borrow it if we can sort a handover. If you don't have any luck let me know as I'm back in Canada in March and can likely source you a cheap one.
 
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seabsicuit2

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T_S - That is so kind of you to offer !! The pony is a 4.5 inch bit so a 5 inch wouldnt be too big- I'll have a look around at the local tack shops first and see if there is anything, have a good old fashioned saddlery here where i'm hopefull that I might find a second hand one!

I'll pass that on to them about how the bit works, they will probably have a fit when I suggest it to them, but would rather they try it so that we stop having a crying frightened child every weekend!

Going to have a go at making this daisyrein contraption up too...thank you:)
 
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