Bit of a different barefoot/lammi question

[R2R]

I was wondering who trims the native ponies on the moors/mountains/downs - and how their feet compare/manage themselves?

Also, how do they not get lammi etc - or do they?

I was just reading another thread and it dawned on me that any sort of intervention to feet (be by farrier or by an equine chiropodist or whatever they are called) is bound to have some sort of an effect on the structure of the hoof etc?

So on laminitus prone ponies, is it better to leave the feet alone - as in not have them trimmed at all?

Have I lost everyone?

 

[JVB]

I think it would depend on what ground they were on, ponies on normal grazing wouldn't wear their feet out enough I wouldn't have thought, they would need to be on surfaces that did what the farrier does

 

[Firewell]

Apparently (this is what I learnt at Hartpury anyway ) in the wild ponies roam for hundreds of miles looking for grass. They eat mainly scrub land and poor grazing. They are constantly on the move searching for food. Because of this their feet wear down naturally as there is constant movement and therefore blood going to the foot. Also the nutrients they get from what they eat trickles in to their system so they are not overloaded with fructons and what not.

Lami in fat little mollycoddled ponies is caused by lack of movement and too much rich grass. Rich grass is good for cows but really bad for horses as their systems can struggle to cope with it, its not natural. So fat little pony stands in one spot or meanders about and eats lush fertilised grass which us caring owners spend so much time maintaining.

They dont have to keep warm as they are rugged and they are sometimes ridden but not for long and usually on surfaces. This means there is less blood circulating to the foot, starving the structures and the foot becomes weak. Also little fat pony is small and people overestimate how much food they need. They dont need much just a small but steady trickle of poor quality stuff (poor grass or oversoaked hay)

I dont know if they come in for a trim at all in the wild but I assume not, unless its literally twice a year.

I think with laminitic ponies we have upset their natural balance so we do need to manage their feet because their enviroment isnt. I think once the pony has lami they have to be specially trimmed ect.

Sorry not very scientific!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I was wondering who trims the native ponies on the moors/mountains/downs - and how their feet compare/manage themselves?

I only know a little bit about Exmoor ponies. firstly, they have really rough grazing-really rough. the ones on Scoraig (NW Scotland) have to forage on gorse and seaweed in the winter and the weather is harsh. so they loose weight in the winter and can 'afford' to gain more in the summer. rocky ground/frozen ground will help chip off excess growth but these ponies have long feet in the 'wild' but then, they arent asked to carry riders. they also have to walk a far bit to find enough food. I did read somewhere that statistically at least, exmoors are less likely to get lammi than other breeds but without seeing the study I would take that with a pinch of salt. exmoors are extraordinarily hardy and its probably worth noting that native breeds generally have good feet and arent huge in size..

 

[Umbongo]

Ditto Firewell!

 

[Firewell]

I only know a little bit about Exmoor ponies. firstly, they have really rough grazing-really rough. the ones on Scoraig (NW Scotland) have to forage on gorse and seaweed in the winter and the weather is harsh. so they loose weight in the winter and can 'afford' to gain more in the summer. rocky ground/frozen ground will help chip off excess growth but these ponies have long feet in the 'wild' but then, they arent asked to carry riders. they also have to walk a far bit to find enough food. I did read somewhere that statistically at least, exmoors are less likely to get lammi than other breeds but without seeing the study I would take that with a pinch of salt. exmoors are extraordinarily hardy and its probably worth noting that native breeds generally have good feet and arent huge in size..

Oooh really interesting. Reading this its hardly surprising so many native types and sturdier types get Lami when kept in our domesticated environment.

 

[R2R]

So basically lammi is killing with kindness, and the ponies would be far better of on rough grazing?

 

[Firewell]

Yup! Whenever I go to the New Forest camping it amazes me how they cope on such poor grass, they must literally have a couple of handfuls of decent stuff a day and the rest is gorse and really fibrous stalks and stuff off the bushes and trees, even in the summer.

I do know they get hay chucked out in the winter when it snows and some of the ones owned come in twice a year for worming so they arent as wild as the exmoor pony example.

 

[Umbongo]

Pretty much! The equine digestive system is designed for horses graze on rough grazing, it is our domesticated environment that causes a lot of problems

 

[Sheri]

So basically lammi is killing with kindness, and the ponies would be far better of on rough grazing?

Not all Laminitis remember!

Mares can get it by not passing all the afterbirth
Stress through illness/injury or competition
concussion from heavy riding on hard ground

I was talking to my farrier last week about Lammi because my mare had it last year when she was a good weight (told so by vet), very fit never ridden fast on hard ground. She went lame through an unknown injury and her body apparently went into shock and to cope the body draws the blood away from the extremities and rushes to the vital organs. So the lack of blood flow to the hoof causes the lamanie to die and break down, then it stretches as its no longer strong enough to hold the wall of the hoof due to the body weight of the horse - hence the leaning back to release pressure from the toes.

 

[lillith]

Not trying to be nasty at all but have you seen dartmoor or exmoor?

The grass is very rough, nothing like the fescue based cattle grass we tend to graze our ponies on and is mixed in with heather and braken. It is pretty bleak up there as well, they burn off a lot of energy keeping warm and moving to find fresh water/more food. The ponies tend to look pretty poor comming out of winter and a touch porky comming out of summer, they don't keep the weight over the winter to get fat fat. The grass tends to be low sugar varieties because they are hardier as well so they don't often get the sugar spikes.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Oooh really interesting. Reading this its hardly surprising so many native types and sturdier types get Lami when kept in our domesticated environment.

I basically think of what is suitable for a small pony and use 1/3 of that when it comes to feeding my exmoors. they are kept on a track and have some hay this time of year. I also cut nettles/cow parsely etc etc for them. The older one does 45-90 mins of work 5 times a week (hacking in walk and trot, one session of lunging with poles/jumps for 20mins) and he is looking good but could still lose some weight-he came to me very obese.

 

[Brandy]

Free living exmoor ponies don't have trims. Their feet will wear away naturally and the ones that don't (there are some) tend to grow long feet that then break off to leave quite a normal trimmed looking hoof! I don't think they tend to get laminitus - the grass is not really like we graze out horses on! They have to pick their food - gorse etc and roam. In the winter they have to dig for their food so will come out of winter look leaner than kept ponies would.

New forest ponies often look very very thin at the end of winter.

 

[touchstone]

The growth of the hoof adapts to the wear it gets too, so a hoof on soft ground that isn't worn away so much will tend to have a slower growth rate than those on harder/rockier surfaces.

 

[mrdarcy]

Here's a photo of a hoof from a wild mustang:

Never been trimmed or even touched by a human until the day the horse died. This is what horses hooves should look like in their optimum environment - very short toe, low but very strong, set back heel (look where the hair line is at the back of the foot). Wild hooves in wet conditions look different but the same prinicples apply - poor but varied grazing, lots of movement, no rugs, no stabling, no drugs (wormers/vaccinations) - all produce healthy hooves. It's only domestication that produces laminitis and the need for farriers/trimmers, though domesticated horses worked hard on a variety of surfaces, kept on a Paddock Paradise system and fed a low sugar/starch diet often do not need trimming either as they self trim.

 

[Orangehorse]

I am right in thinking that wild ponies cover about 30 miles every day if they have the space?

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

I have a barefoot pony and very rough tracks and hill trails for hacking and she never needs any trimming off her hoof, its very like that mustang piccie, its just smoothed off with a rasp to make it pretty and round if it has any jags!

She has a couple of handfuls of healthy hooves and old late cut hay plus bare rough grazing. If anything shes too round due to being snowed in over the winter for 3 months! But its coming off nicely now, we are out for rides 5/6 days a week.

She also isnt wormed unless worm count/blood test for tapeworm indicates, so far only once in 3 years.

So I cant imagine a wild pony would need any trimming.