Bit of a head scratcher! Thoughts welcome

ApolloStorm

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This is going to be a long one!
My gelding who has had a bit of a tough year before I got him going through a few owners all of who seemed to make things worse! He’s a 7yo welsh. He’s 16hh so a big boy, and in 6’9 rugs so is long.
When he came there was an insane amount of tension and pain in his whole body but He has been seen regularly by an ESMT, who has largely resolved this. He was also incredibly weak, could hardly walk over a pole without tripping! So we did plenty of in hand pole work and lunging. He was able to be ridden after a few months, he had a saddle fitted, and was going lovely. Still sensitive and green but coming on - occasionally he would just “explode” no obvious trigger - broncking fits that a rodeo would be proud of! Safe to say I get ditched, neck damage one time, a broken ankle the second. So quick check of the saddle reveals it isn’t fitting him at all anymore - get the saddler out to get a new saddle, and for the first 5 minutes he goes fantastic better than ever, then suddenly again he explodes and I fall and this causes me a lot of back problems and pain. Saddler recommends a vet physio - who says his hips are uneven and one side is up and forward. He has lumbar tension, hamstring tension. Physio ultra sounded and used PEMF to return his hips to level. She suspects an old injury to have caused spasm in the iliopsoas which she released. All through this he has had this weird circumduction of his left hind only in walk - physio thinks it’s related to the spasm - but 6 weeks on with rest he is still doing it.
Had saddler back out today and she thinks something else is going on to cause discomfort - we came up with many ideas, including ulcers and him simply having one leg longer than the other!

I don’t really have a question I suppose but any thoughts would be welcome in terms of best course of action?
Hes fully insured so vet would be a realistic option, but there is also the possibility that the vets would find something and it not be the cause of his explosions. The physio was confident when asked that he wouldn’t need a vet to come and do scans etc.

I will add that he is fully up to date with teeth and he is barefoot and his farrier noted his strange wear of his feet due to the circumduction- and trims to accommodate. Saddler is also one of my few trusted professionals- she’s fab! His bridle and bit are all fine- he is in a simple loose ring double joint with a lozenge. Simple tack nothing restrictive. And he is fed an “ulcer friendly” diet of hifi molasses free with Equimins advance and flexijoint in before any work. He lives out year round and always has access to grass or hay.
 

ApolloStorm

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Believe it or not said vet physio also lectures at a university on the subject hence me taking her advice.
I was ready to get the vet before she came out, and I was wondering if there was any one who’d had a similar set of “symptoms” and resolved it
 

milliepops

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My weak tense explody ones were both been wobblers that the physios have all turned out to treat quite happily :(
Another tense horse prone to explosions had ulcers
2 out of those 3 were also lame, which would be a broad brush stroke term I'd apply to a horse that doesn't use one leg "normally"

So, i guess it could be so many things, but only a really good vet will be able to help you unpick it.
 

milliepops

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also i never really understand reluctance to get vets involved, particularly with an insured horse, if you want to put a claim in the claim period has already started because you have this known issue rumbling on so may as well crack on and get the vet to look asap. you won't be able to claim on this later on because you would have to disclose a pre existing issue... use it or lose it ;)
 

ApolloStorm

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Because.
He isn’t ‘lame’ - in trot there is no weird leg movement He’s perfectly sound on a trot up. He has only done this 3 times in the 18 months I’ve owned him and the dots haven’t been connected yet in regards to if any of it is ACTUALLY related. The explosions were put down to saddle fit until the saddler came!
The fact she lectures was just to state that she is qualified and isn’t some crackpot back man.
As stated I wasn’t really looking for your opinion on WHEN I should’ve gotten the vet out but more those with experiences of horses similar.

Well to be honest, in that case, I think you are asking on the wrong forum - I think the majority of forum users would have got their regular vet out looooong ago, despite where your physio lectures.:rolleyes: How is that relative to the problems you still have and still do not know the cause or prognosis?
 

ycbm

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there is also the possibility that the vets would find something and it not be the cause of his explosions.

If a vet finds something that needs treating, surely it needs treating, and it's not relevant whether that something is actually causing the explosions?

I'm missing the point of not investigating when the horse is insured?
.
 

ApolloStorm

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If a vet finds something that needs treating, surely it needs treating, and it's not relevant whether that something is actually causing the explosions?

I'm missing the point of not investigating when the horse is insured?
.

while in *theory* I don’t disagree but when they find things like mild OA or “potential for kissing spine” and there is potentially a secondary issue such as ulcers or PSSM or wobblers like stated above that gets missed because vets found something and some vets will stop once they’ve found something - and if the explosions still occur - I’m up the proverbial because I’m lucky to have walked away with only one broken bone.
 

Tiddlypom

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Your horse may have a simple issue which can be readily sorted, or he may have multiple issues which may take time to unravel. Random explosions can be caused by any number of things.

In any event, a vet check is the least that your horse deserves, especially as he is insured.

Or carry on listening to your crackpot physio and wait for the next explosion.
 

paddy555

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while in *theory* I don’t disagree but when they find things like mild OA or “potential for kissing spine” and there is potentially a secondary issue such as ulcers or PSSM or wobblers like stated above that gets missed because vets found something and some vets will stop once they’ve found something - and if the explosions still occur - I’m up the proverbial because I’m lucky to have walked away with only one broken bone.

if you don't go for a vet work up what are you proposing to do to resolve it? I can't see how anyone can give you an answer. I can say yes, certainly, PSSM could present like that in a 7yo and why has he had a few other owners, did they all have the same problem.
I'm sure someone else could come on and say ulcers or KS.
Indeed it might be 2 problems. PSSM has a knock on effect to other problems. I'm sure a horse in pain from KS may well be a candidate for ulcers. Who knows. I doubt anyone does based on vague symptoms the most obvious being that the horse chucks you off as he is in pain.

I don't see how your physio could diagnose some of these things. I would have thought a physio would welcome scans or X rays or whatever to help treat the horse. If your physio thinks he doesn't need a vet then why hasn't the physio cured him by now?

I don't get it. If he is insured get him to a horse hospital and see what they come up with. They may only come up with one thing. If it doesn't resolve it they will have to look again. You are the customer, ask them to keep looking in case there are 2 problems.
Like some of the others on here it is difficult to see the problem in deciding the next step.
 

AmyMay

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while in *theory* I don’t disagree but when they find things like mild OA or “potential for kissing spine” and there is potentially a secondary issue such as ulcers or PSSM or wobblers like stated above that gets missed because vets found something and some vets will stop once they’ve found something - and if the explosions still occur - I’m up the proverbial because I’m lucky to have walked away with only one broken bone.

Then there’s absolutely no point in having insurance then. However, the examples you give has never been my experience.
 

ycbm

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while in *theory* I don’t disagree but when they find things like mild OA or “potential for kissing spine” and there is potentially a secondary issue such as ulcers or PSSM or wobblers like stated above that gets missed because vets found something and some vets will stop once they’ve found something - and if the explosions still occur - I’m up the proverbial because I’m lucky to have walked away with only one broken bone.


I don't get the point. You are waiting for the next explosion. You could get a vet workup and they might find something that needs treatment, and in spite of that treatment you might get another explosion. I don't see how that negates getting vet treatment.

You have a horse with a gait abnormality at walk. It may or may not be related to him periodically exploding. It needs investigating.
.
 

dixie

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I don’t really have a question I suppose but any thoughts would be welcome in terms of best course of action?
Hes fully insured so vet would be a realistic option, but there is also the possibility that the vets would find something and it not be the cause of his explosions. “

the best course of action would be to get the vet out ASAP
There is also the strong possibility they will find the cause of the explosions - that’s their job. The physio should be the treatment after diagnosis.
I hope you and your horse find your answer
 

Mrs. Jingle

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Because.
He isn’t ‘lame’ - in trot there is no weird leg movement He’s perfectly sound on a trot up. He has only done this 3 times in the 18 months I’ve owned him and the dots haven’t been connected yet in regards to if any of it is ACTUALLY related. The explosions were put down to saddle fit until the saddler came!
The fact she lectures was just to state that she is qualified and isn’t some crackpot back man.
As stated I wasn’t really looking for your opinion on WHEN I should’ve gotten the vet out but more those with experiences of horses similar.

Righty ho. Work away then, as we say around here. Pity though, considering a vet work up many months ago could well have joined all those dots up for you and your horse long since. :rolleyes:
 

HashRouge

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If he was mine I would get a vet out for a full work up. Otherwise it is always going to be guessing and supposition. That way at least you know you have explored all avenues.

You can also ask the vet if you think it could be PSSM or ulcers etc.
This. You can say to the vet that you want a full work up to get to the bottom of things, and want to rule out ulcers/ kissing spines even if they think they're unlikely. There is no point waiting around for the next explosion.
 

Mrs. Jingle

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You’re very rude and not very nice are you

Well as I clearly don't agree with delaying for so long getting a decent equine vet to check your horse thoroughly, then I guess you must be justified in your opinion that my differing ideas and attitude on horse welfare must make me very rude and not very nice at all. But not to worry I can live with your very negative opinion of me. I repeat - work away ! ?
 

SEL

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My weak, explosive one is pretty much a paddock pet now and turned out to have PSSM, bad hocks, suspensory problems and navicular problems. She has a very strange action behind (basically she is bilaterally lame but to the uninitiated [most people] looks fine) and Osteo vet was convinced there was a stifle & / or SI problem - but scans ruled out both. I doubt we'll ever get to the bottom of what the main or initial issue was but the one thing I do wish is that I had changed vets and pushed for a more thorough work up earlier. Not just because I ran out of time on the insurance but for her sake - I'm pretty sure the suspensory problems wouldn't be there if we'd sorted some of the other stuff earlier. I still kick myself over that and have made sure not to repeat the same error with any of my others.

Whatever your physio says you owe it to your horse to have a full vet workup
 

Pearlsasinger

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while in *theory* I don’t disagree but when they find things like mild OA or “potential for kissing spine” and there is potentially a secondary issue such as ulcers or PSSM or wobblers like stated above that gets missed because vets found something and some vets will stop once they’ve found something - and if the explosions still occur - I’m up the proverbial because I’m lucky to have walked away with only one broken bone.


Then send to a equine specialist vet who won't stop the investigations until they have found what is causing the problems. The horse certainly seems to be trying to tell you something is wrong. Several people on here have very high opinions of a couple of osteo vets who look at the horse holistically. If you don't think your vet would do that, it would be worth contacting one of them.
 
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