Bit of a long rant - Respiratory Problems...

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ScarlettLady

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Hi,

Some of u may remember my post about '? low grade recurrent colic' basically 4 weeks ago my horse had increased respiration rate of around 30 per minute, on 2 occasions, on both occasions on call vet came out and diagnosed as colic. I then had another 3 visits from the vets in hours, telling me the same, although his main problem was increased respiration rate, and some times heaving. I was told this was low grade discomfort due to possible worm problem, although he was wormed and there was no evidence of worms also faecal worm count was returned as normal...:confused:

Finally after being palmed off by receptionists and vets :mad:2 weeks ago my mum phoned and gave them hell, as blood results hadn't come back 6 days after they were taken, he was supposed to have been referred to UK specialist and nothing came of this etc. etc. (we're in the IOM) This resulted in the Senior from the practice coming out a wk ago yesterday, as symptoms weren't matching up to suspected diagnosis etc. So told them we wanted to look Resp wise now as thought colic was secondary to this.

He looked at him on the yard, and said there was nothing wrong with his breathing,:mad: however, he was still belly breathing with a resp rate of 20.... He listed to his lungs after being trotted up and told me there was a slight wheeze. Took more bloods, started ventipulmin, tapped stomach off fluid (turned out to be from intestine :eek: )
bloods came back wbc count slightly raised, but not enough to warrant clear infection, so antibiotics fr 5 days which have finished today.

Vet stuck his head in yesterday whilst visiting another horse said breathing doesn't look right, belly breathing, but not as exaggerated, resp rate still about 20. carry on ventipulmin till next Monday then review. He's thinking maybe ROA possibly triggered by turnout, as can only tolerate max of 2 hrs turnout. But where do I go next Monday?! vets bills already £600 and still no answers, or massive improvement! Do I just push for Bronchoscopy?? :confused:

Sorry thanks for reading am just tired and fed up at the moment, and can't see a clear plan, he's only 11 and was ready to do local ode the week all this started, so was fit.... :( Any response appreciated :)
 
What a cock up hun!!!! I remember your original post. Has your horse ever showed any signs of a change in his breathing before, either in May (could be a pollen allergy) or about now (could be a dust allergy)? My horse has serious RAO from a pollen allergy. It's virtually impossible to keep a horse in a pollen-free environment through the summer but if he's only just developed this breathing problem, it doesn't quite fit with pollen. There isn't any pollen around now. But my horse is STILL suffering quite badly as the damage caused by the pollen allergy takes months to slowly recover, when the pollen has ended for the year. Could your horse have had a pollen allergy without you realising the damage that was being done? Sunny started off with just an intermittent dry cough 4 summers ago but it gets worse and worse every year. This year has been the worst of the lot. The oral Ventipulmin wasn't helping much so he's been on inhaled ventipulmin and inhaled steroids for the past 2 months. If the vets suggest your horse goes onto inhaled drugs, PM me for the best and cheapest way to do this. If your horse has an allergy to dust then you could be in big trouble if he can only tolerate a couple of hours t/o. Why can he only tolerate this? Is it a year round intolerance or just summer or just winter? Is he still eating as normal? Any weight loss or depression? Do you still ride him as normal and if so can you feel him start to gasp if he's worked hard or up hills (as if he's just had a good gallop)?

Difficult to offer any help without a bit more info but to be honest, one thing stands out above all the rest. Your vets need a stick of dynamite up their backsides! While they're faffing about changing the diagnosis and only leaping into action when your mum raised merry hell, your horse could be in serious trouble, whether it's colic or RAO or whatever. Not sure how it works in IoM but can you get a referral to a specialist centre because that's where your horse needs to be. Please let us know how he's doing xxx
 
Thanks for your reply :)
The reason he can only tolerate a couple of hours turnout is due to whatever this problem is... otherwise his resp rate is above 30, hes sweating and looks generally uncomfortable, but not colicky... :confused:

He had a slight cough over the summer, as he was in all summer, due to me being stupid and agreeing to take on a friend's youngster, (which turned out lovely, but then got in a row over money etc. etc. never again!) and he tried to kill her in the field. (not sure he's a rig, but definitely has some stallion tendancies!) So I kept him in most of the summer, and worked him, and it really suited him, about an hr of turnout a day whilst i worked other horse etc. But back to the cough - I soaked his hay, and it disappeared! so thought nothing more of it. He'd been turned out for a month - 6wks before this stared happening 4 wks ago, and no signs or symptoms in the time he was out....

I thought it may have been pollen, but I get quite nasty hayfever, and I'd have noticed if pollen count was up now, but I've been fine....

Just seems odd if its dust allergy, that he's much happier and more comfortable whilst in....

I know my vets are dreadful really, but the guy thats dealing with him now is pretty spot on usually, so will see what happens, but frustrated that last wk he tried to tell me there was nothing wrong with his breathing when he turned up on the yard, and then this wk when i feel he's improved alot, his breathing's "still not right". :confused:
BUT don't get me started on all this because this information is all 3rd hand re visit on Mon, as I wasn't on yard, and vet never bothered to phone me! :mad: I'd have thought there were confidentiality issues re. discussing my horse with someone else, whilst he wasn't on visit to my horse? But my background's all healthcare maybe its different with animals?

Sorry guys another long rant!!!

Becky x
 
Hi Just poking my nose in but Ditto one of my horses and myself re pollen.
However things have not cleared up as the Fungal spores have been high since the end of the pollen season!! I have not been great and my boy who who is suffering from Chronic viral fatigue after a virus (nearly 2 years ago ) says the same!!!!
 
Hi, Have spoken to vet re pollen etc. but doesn't think this is an allergy as its not presented as an allergy would usually..... :confused:

Thank you so much for replies though!!!! :)
 
ooooo....I remember reading the first thread of yours - think I even may have chipped in ;). But mostly I felt and still feel even more like this...:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

If I was an ownerI'd be getting a second opinion or asking for a referral....
As a vet I'd be referring it....
Sounds like they might be out of their depth and scrabbling in the hay...no change and crappy continuity,lapse in communication....

Call the vets in the morning, ask to see the latest vet asap at the clinic for a consult. Don't get fobbed off. Book at set time and meet them to discuss your worries and concerns re the case and talk about a referral....if no go then I'd say I'll getting a second opinion in your own right.

Sounds like they need to realise this needs attention and a proper work up. :mad:

Good luck - Oh and IMO rant justified ;)
Imogen
 
Thank you, yep my head is spinning, and in total negative mode having had a really bad year this year anyway!

Vet coming on Monday at the moment, as he wanted to give the ventipulmin 2 wks to see effect... I think he's improved alot, but then I've been much stricter with turnout times etc. to control symptoms where as I had been seeing how much he could tolerate i now know....

Thought I'd turn him out for around 2-3hrs prior to vet visit so vet can see him at his worst...

We only have 1 other vet on the island who i would have a clue re a horse, but the guy I'm using has the most experience and is supposed to be best... so atm second opinion is a last resort. My vet is considering doing bronchoscopy, which I am tempted just to push for now....

Unfortunately I think he's enjoying being the centre of my attention far too much :o as for the vets I would hope I'm on this years christmas card list by now!!!

Thanks Becky x
 
Endoscopy is first test that should be done IMO....results will be a bit biased due to all the meds given but still crucial...
I feel for you stuck out there (beautiful but seemingly devoid of proactive vets....shame as my mate was working there and she was great - esp with horses....doesn't help as she's now in Germany.....sorry :)).

Good luck
Imogen
 
darn it! does she fancy flying back? lol

Endoscopy can't be done by vets here app.... I've been told they have to bring someone over, however they can do bronchoscopy...

Which makes no sense to me as i'd have though higher risk of infection etc. etc.

just been to check him and resp rate in mid 20s but doesn't look as uncomfortable as he did a week or so ago... or I'm just used to it.... will be on the phone in the morning though!

Thank you so much for your replies, and taking time to read it, it makes more sense than just bashing it round and round and round in my head!!! :rolleyes: Much appreciated! :D

Becky x
 
becca_norrey said:
darn it! does she fancy flying back? lol
Click to expand...
I'm sure for a fee - lol :D

Endoscopy can't be done by vets here app.... I've been told they have to bring someone over, however they can do bronchoscopy...
Click to expand...

Aha - this actually makes NO sense.
Bronchoscopy needs an endoscope....scope is the long fibre optic camera used to look into the bronchus! But I think I know what they can do and may mean...a BAL (bronchoalveolar lavage). This technique can be done with a scope or blind (without guidance). The blind technique is just as safe...but by some bizarre twist of fate the BAL tube will always go up the right dorsal bronchus.

A BAL is done using a long tube passed up the horses nose and into the airway (that's the bit where having a scope helps!) and it's passed all the way down the trachea into a bronchus (R dorsal by default) and wedged at the narrowest point. then saline is injected into the alveolus and sucked back.

It's a great test for lower lung disease if it's diffuse - i.e. throughout the whole lung spread out evenly. However, due to the default passage up the right dorsal bronchus it will only sample that area so if disease is not in that area - negative result with positive disease.

That's why the tracheal wash is used so much more commonly...less specific but more sensitive for detecting diffuse disease. :o

A tracheal wash can be done blind too. But NO SCOPES on the IOM????:eek:

Which makes no sense to me as i'd have though higher risk of infection etc. etc.
Click to expand...
Not really TBH :)


Good luck..
Imogen
 
Ok that makes sense.....
Best mates dressage horse supposedly had bronchoscopy on Mon so will chase her up as to how it was done etc.

I'll be asking re. endoscopy for sure tomorrow, i know a friend's horse had suspected ulcers about 2-3 yrs ago and was told they didn't scope here (where i'm getting no scoping from) but may have changed.... does seem stupid if not though :confused:

Thanks again! :D
 
becca_norrey said:
Ok that makes sense.....
Best mates dressage horse supposedly had bronchoscopy on Mon so will chase her up as to how it was done etc.

I'll be asking re. endoscopy for sure tomorrow, i know a friend's horse had suspected ulcers about 2-3 yrs ago and was told they didn't scope here (where i'm getting no scoping from) but may have changed.... does seem stupid if not though :confused:

Thanks again! :D
Click to expand...

Aha- in that case it makes more sense. To scope the stomach they need a 3m scope....for the "bronchoscopy" they only need a 1.2m scope which they probably have!!! I can't believe they wouldn't!!! :D

Let me know I'm intrigued!
 
vet coming out on Monday, so will let you know what happens... :confused:
Receptionist recognised my voice and asked how he was :eek: sign of spending far too much money and time there :o
 
Vet was out today.
He just wanted to keep him on the ventipulmin for another few weeks and see how he went... :mad: its been 5 weeks now think i've done enough waiting!!

So we're having bronchoscopy on wed - still didn't find out re endoscpe as he's ruling out digestion problems, but not metabolic disorder...

Still seems like he doesn't have a clue, but he's not concerned either which is frustrating, as he's saying the breathing is normal! -Its not resp rate is in the 20s and his whole belly moves when he breathes, and you can hear each exhalation...

Sorry another rant :( Starting to wish we lived in the 'UK' :rolleyes:
 
becca_norrey said:
Vet was out today.
He just wanted to keep him on the ventipulmin for another few weeks and see how he went... :mad: its been 5 weeks now think i've done enough waiting!!

So we're having bronchoscopy on wed - still didn't find out re endoscpe as he's ruling out digestion problems, but not metabolic disorder...

Still seems like he doesn't have a clue, but he's not concerned either which is frustrating, as he's saying the breathing is normal! -Its not resp rate is in the 20s and his whole belly moves when he breathes, and you can hear each exhalation...

Sorry another rant :( Starting to wish we lived in the 'UK' :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Still feeling for you and your boy....shame can't help more...:(

Oh and the bold bit isn't normal either. :rolleyes:
 
Thanks, just hoping we either confirm or rule out something respiratory on Wednesday....
Nope I know that resp rate isn't good.... unfortunately vet seems to think its because hes around... I told him he was like that before he got there and then horse promptly snorted at him.... which just made him think he was right :mad:
 
I'd get an endoscope and a tracheal wash done. Mine had ventipulmin for weeks, did nothing. And sputulosin. And ventipulmin with antibiotics. And horse antibiotics. And turkey antibiotics (Why?? no idea!) And oral steroids.

Nothing worked. The scope and tracheal wash found e-coli in his lungs (ugh).

The last resort was a steroid inhaler, which he's been on for 6 years. Works for us. Not cheap (especially since they went on to cfc-free inhalers - started off at £11 each and are now about £35 each) but at least I can ride him.

Mine has mostly dust allergy with a bit of pollen too and is crap in the heat. My friend's horse is more pollen and she's found Global Herbs to be helpful.
 
teebagsmum said:
I'd get an endoscope and a tracheal wash done. Mine had ventipulmin for weeks, did nothing. And sputulosin. And ventipulmin with antibiotics. And horse antibiotics. And turkey antibiotics (Why?? no idea!) And oral steroids.

Nothing worked. The scope and tracheal wash found e-coli in his lungs (ugh).

The last resort was a steroid inhaler, which he's been on for 6 years. Works for us. Not cheap (especially since they went on to cfc-free inhalers - started off at £11 each and are now about £35 each) but at least I can ride him.

Mine has mostly dust allergy with a bit of pollen too and is crap in the heat. My friend's horse is more pollen and she's found Global Herbs to be helpful.
Click to expand...

:D LOL. The turkey antibiotic was probably Baytril. It's not licensed for use in the horse but the oral solution is great for resistant bacteria and it is in liquid as it's easier to put it in the water system for big poultry houses (licensed for poultry!) :D

E.coli rare in lungs - :eek: yucky.
Anyway, glad he's all good now!!!
 
great thanks!! will see what wednesday brings and then where we go from there, just getting very frustrated now :mad: but i think i need more patience :rolleyes:
 
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