Bit of a rant, need opinions.

CastlelackSportHorses

CastlelackSportHorses

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This may be a bit long and hard to follow but bear with me.

I keep my horses on my Husbands parents livery yard.
Have done for over 15 years before it was a livery yard. Always for free.

Anyway, back in 2020 I was approached by a family looking for livery for their kids pony, and thus the livery yard started.
I brought in all the liveries as (as good as his parents are their not VERY horsey).
They do full livery Monday-Friday and DIY weekends and public holidays.

I live right next door so I do EVERYTHING for my 2 horses.
I have a stable for each and turnout and use of arena(If I want).

Here's the thing, I pay €25 a week per horse, but ontop of that I have to poo pick the other livery horses fields 4 times a week, turnout all horses Monday-Friday in the winter(They live out 24/7 in summer) and I generally end up bringing in in the evening every evening as Im always around.(I WFH most days)

I also supply my own bedding, hay and hard feed, do my own rug changes, mucking out etc etc. And I have absolutely no problem poo picking my own horses field(with help from liveries as their mixed).

But my issue is, should I really be paying to work? Like I am family, and I know at the end of the day that doesn't matter to some people, but should I not be paying If Im basically doing their job for them?

Maybe Im wrong and sound like a spoilt child. I just feel very hard done by, as I bend over backwards for them when they need me, any queries they ever have I answer, and issues I try and fix.

Im a bit fed up. Sorry, rant over.
 
I agree this doesnt sound fair to you - could you work out how many hours you spend doing the liveries and put a groom's average wage to it and see how much you should be 'earning', then you could argue your case for free livery in return for the work you do on the yard? And/or suggest you stop working/doing the liveries and they have to employ someone?
 
Mrs G said:
I agree this doesnt sound fair to you - could you work out how many hours you spend doing the liveries and put a groom's average wage to it and see how much you should be 'earning', then you could argue your case for free livery in return for the work you do on the yard? And/or suggest you stop working/doing the liveries and they have to employ someone?
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Yes this is what my Husband wants to discuss with them. I understand they are in their 70s and work can be hard, but I still dont think its fair Im paying to work for them.
I was going to suggest I either stop doing any work and pay the €50 a week to them for field and stable, or I get free livery and keep helping them out.

I don't mind helping whatsoever but feel Im being taken advantage.
 
Honestly, I think that you are getting a good deal. You are effectively a DIY livery and for that €25 per week is very cheap. It reads like you are doing chores for the balance. You aren't paying to work, you're paying to keep your horse(s) there cheaply.

Yes, you absolutely should be paying, family or not, as you are still eating their grass and using their facilities. They would be better off financially filling your space with more Full Liveries. It very much reads like they are doing you a good turn. I know people who would bite their hand off at €25pw with chores in exchange for DIY livery and use of a school.

It's perfectly understandable that you do not want to continue as is, but then it falls to you to make alternative livery arrangements. I personally don't think the arrangement that they have with you is a bad one, it just possibly no longer suits you and that is ok too.
 
Your in laws are receiving fees for the livery so they should be paying you for your labour. If you want to be really fair then see what the cost is locally for DIY livery, deduct the £25 pw from that and see what the difference is between that amount and your labour at minimum wage.
 
Amymay Again said:
How was this agreement arrived at? Did you offer or were you told to do it? Who mucks out the full livery horses etc?
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Well I sort of offered to help, but didnt realise I was going to be helping so much.
His parents do everything for full liveries, but on weekday mornings Im up before work anyway to do my girls so I turn out their liveries Monday-Friday, they are in their 70s so don't get out of bed as early as I do.
They muck out, fill hay and water for full liveries.
In winter horses are in allweather turnouts and I know they will expect me to poo pick them also 4 days a week in winter months.(Which I don't mind doing but I don't see why I should be paying to do it)
 
ihatework said:
I’d suggest you ask your in-laws to pay the going rate for your stabling/facilities. That’s not 25 euro btw! But, crucially, if you are then working for them essentially as the groom for the liveries, you charge per hour as a freelancer.
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Yes and tbh If I was freelancing I would be charging 15/20€ per hour. So it cancels it all out realistically.
 
I think you need to be a bit careful with calculating "freelance hours", or at least maybe don't present it that way directly to OH's parents. As you say, you brought the liveries, his parents are in their 70s. If you weren't keeping your horses there they wouldn't have the yard or any of the work to do, and that might be a reasonable option they could return to 😬 Having your horses on your doorstep is a direct benefit I think you need to consider as well. If your husband is due to inherit some or all of the estate there is that also. I don't think it's 100% fair that you do a good bit of work as well as pay essentially grass livery rates but I would be careful about going in too hard about it.
 
smolmaus said:
I think you need to be a bit careful with calculating "freelance hours", or at least maybe don't present it that way directly to OH's parents. As you say, you brought the liveries, his parents are in their 70s. If you weren't keeping your horses there they wouldn't have the yard or any of the work to do, and that might be a reasonable option they could return to 😬 Having your horses on your doorstep is a direct benefit I think you need to consider as well. If your husband is due to inherit some or all of the estate there is that also. I don't think it's 100% fair that you do a good bit of work as well as pay essentially grass livery rates but I would be careful about going in too hard about it.
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Oh totally, and his father can be a very difficult man at best of times.
But it is their only income(bar the pension) so if it weren't for me they wouldnt have it. And may not do it much longer either( we are trying to change to full DIY as they arent able for the work really).

But I do think I am being taken advantage of as previous to the livery yard opening I never paid towards grass(would have always paid my own bedding, hay and feed)
and also gave my Mother in law two of my horses to ride/compete for many years before they retired.
 
smolmaus said:
I think you need to be a bit careful with calculating "freelance hours", or at least maybe don't present it that way directly to OH's parents. As you say, you brought the liveries, his parents are in their 70s. If you weren't keeping your horses there they wouldn't have the yard or any of the work to do, and that might be a reasonable option they could return to 😬 Having your horses on your doorstep is a direct benefit I think you need to consider as well. If your husband is due to inherit some or all of the estate there is that also. I don't think it's 100% fair that you do a good bit of work as well as pay essentially grass livery rates but I would be careful about going in too hard about it.
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This is a good point too. There will be wider considerations. There is only so long 70yo will be able/or want to run livery. So without your help, would they continue? What impact might that have on you. A conversation definitely needs to be had, and keep the money above in the back pocket to discuss, but you also need to understand where your in-laws sit on it all
 
ihatework said:
This is a good point too. There will be wider considerations. There is only so long 70yo will be able/or want to run livery. So without your help, would they continue? What impact might that have on you. A conversation definitely needs to be had, and keep the money above in the back pocket to discuss, but you also need to understand where your in-laws sit on it all
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Agreed. I think if they decided to close the yard in the morning I would still be able to keep my horses here(As my mother in law has her cob here).
Family are difficult.
I know my family would never have asked my husband for a penny if it were the shoe on the other foot.
 
CastlelackSportHorses said:
Oh totally, and his father can be a very difficult man at best of times.
But it is their only income(bar the pension) so if it weren't for me they wouldnt have it. And may not do it much longer either( we are trying to change to full DIY as they arent able for the work really).

But I do think I am being taken advantage of as previous to the livery yard opening I never paid towards grass(would have always paid my own bedding, hay and feed)
and also gave my Mother in law two of my horses to ride/compete for many years before they retired.
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Well, I also have a FIL that is prone to just throwing the head up, so to speak, which is where my caution comes from 😂
 
Could you suggest that full livery is getting hard for All of you. Get them to agree diy only then set a date and stick to it. Ensure the diy people really are diy, contract re poo picking etc.
 
Petalpoos said:
Your in laws are receiving fees for the livery so they should be paying you for your labour. If you want to be really fair then see what the cost is locally for DIY livery, deduct the £25 pw from that and see what the difference is between that amount and your labour at minimum wage.
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Totally agree. Before raising the issue, I would make a spreadsheet with livery costs (at market price) on one side, and the time and value of your labour on the other. See what comes out, and that should help you decide what you really want.

Is cheap / free livery the most important thing to you, or would you rather pay closer to market price and stop having to do all the work?

If the in-laws are pocketing the livery fees paid by all other these other owners, then I agree the arrangement's a bit "off". It would be entirely different (in my mind) if you were getting a clear, pre-defined cut of any profits.

Finally, would the livery yard actually break even if they were paying a freelancer minimum wage to do all these tasks? If the answer is no, and it's only solvent because of your free labour, then there's a bigger and more difficult conversation to be had.
 
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