Bit recommendations or advice – Leaner

[Hormonal Filly]

I did search the forum but couldn’t find anything similar so wanted to ask you smart lot who know a lot more than me!

My gelding is not always the most forward chap although can be, he naturally holds himself in a lovely outline with a very soft mouth. I've been told he has potential to go far in dressage.

His main issue is.. leaning! I drop the reins and give some leg but he’ll still try and lean. He also ‘buries’ his head into the contact rather than going forward sometimes. I haven’t rectified it in 5 years of ownership and even when he was at his fittest, winning prelim tests with good percentages he still liked to lean. We've had lessons and been told I ride him lovely, given advice was to push him on, don't hold him so he can't lean and get him more forward. He’s 8 now and I think its his ‘safety’ blanket especially the burring the head.

Hes been in a Neue Schule Verbindend most of his life and currently in a French link hanging cheek snaffle as swapped his bridle but still made no difference.

I’ve only ever tried these 2 bits since backing.. is there anything else that might be more suitable? Or any techniques?
Thank you in advance.

 

[be positive]

It sounds more of schooling/ balance issue than a bitting one although I am not a fan of hanging cheeks on anything that is inclined to be heavy as I prefer something loose ring to encourage a bit more movement and softness.
If he is holding himself in a 'lovely outline' is he actually in front of the leg, taking some weight behind and bending through his length and not just tucking behind the contact and then relying on your hand to keep him balanced?
I would change to a loose ring which will help stop him setting into the contact so easily, do more work on a long, not loose, rein, ask for more lateral bending, more lateral work to get him pushing from behind without him being able to hold himself behind the contact/ your aids.
I tend to go onto a long rein, pick up a little then back onto a long rein and expect them to follow the hand not rely on it, be ready to bend when asked in either direction on straight lines and on circles and try to stop him holding himself in an outline that is not being asked for, if he is genuinely holding himself he will have no reason to lean but I do expect a green horse to lean to an extent while they learn, gain strength and balance, it does not happen overnight and some will always prefer to take a stronger contact than others.

 

[Littlebear]

I agree with bepositive - sounds like a balance issue, i know you say that he has done well at prelim but remember that level is the absolute basics of schooling no real questions asked here, once you move up the levels you have to show alot more where it will show up how much weight is being taken behind, self carriage, balance, adjust-ability, suppleness and what not. You say he has a soft mouth and is in a lovely outline but is he going forward into the contact or is he actually behind the bit and not really going forward into the contact?
I would be tempted to have a lesson with someone on weight aids, i am sure you ride great but this will be the difference of you helping him find his own balance, using your body in ways you may not of thought of to help him develop further.
It may also be worth finding a really good flat work rider to school him, someone who has trained a lot of young horses up the levels as they would have come across this time and time again with multiple horses (i think every baby horse i have ridden i have encountered the same issue you have and i am not a pro rider).

 

[claret09]

i use a loose ring rotary snaffle

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Thanks all for your replies, really appreciate it. I'll swap over to the loose ring again, I do think he leaned and was less off the forehand in the loose ring than the hanging cheek, but do agree its also a balance issue.

If he is holding himself in a 'lovely outline' is he actually in front of the leg, taking some weight behind and bending through his length and not just tucking behind the contact and then relying on your hand to keep him balanced?

When he works well he is in front the leg and in a genuine outline, very uphill and powering from behind. I have had lessons with some excellent instructors and they have said he can go lovely (I'll see if I can find a video of us) but when hes finding something difficult he resorts to trying to lean and coming down onto the forehand.
Although it doesn't help every time we get to the stage hes improving and flat work is coming on lovely, he injuries himself in the field and is back on box rest. Grrr

It may also be worth finding a really good flat work rider to school him, someone who has trained a lot of young horses up the levels as they would have come across this time and time again with multiple horses

Never thought of this.. i'll do a bit of asking about - Thank you!

 

[be positive]

When they find something difficult, either physically or mentally, many will look for a secure, possibly stronger, contact, they may lose their balance because they find it hard so rely more on the rider than desired, that is no reason to stop pushing on but accepting the reason behind the leaning and allowing it to an extent while you work through the trickier things may help you move on with a slightly different approach.
Keep the harder things to short parts of a session, ideally in the middle before he gets tired, accept he may lean for that time and go in and out of the harder things then you should suddenly find he gets it, has his balance and is becoming more established ready to learn the next thing, just remember to keep going back to within his comfort zone so he gets shorts breaks but not a total rest.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

When they find something difficult, either physically or mentally, many will look for a secure, possibly stronger, contact, they may lose their balance because they find it hard so rely more on the rider than desired, that is no reason to stop pushing on but accepting the reason behind the leaning and allowing it to an extent while you work through the trickier things may help you move on with a slightly different approach.
Keep the harder things to short parts of a session, ideally in the middle before he gets tired, accept he may lean for that time and go in and out of the harder things then you should suddenly find he gets it, has his balance and is becoming more established ready to learn the next thing, just remember to keep going back to within his comfort zone so he gets shorts breaks but not a total rest.

Thank you bp, I find shoulder in he struggles more on one rein for instance so leans more. Will swap bits and gradually introduce work he struggles with slowly!

 

[redapple]

When he works well he is in front the leg and in a genuine outline, very uphill and powering from behind. I have had lessons with some excellent instructors and they have said he can go lovely (I'll see if I can find a video of us) but when he's finding something difficult he resorts to trying to lean and coming down onto the forehand.
Although it doesn't help every time we get to the stage he's improving and flatwork is coming on lovely, he injures himself in the field and is back on box rest. Grrr

Are we riding the same horse?!

I also have a leaner who can move beautifully but also has a habit of leaning and losing impulsion from behind. She is also on a cycle of getting fit and then coming lame and having to go on box rest!!

Mines in a french link hanging snaffle as that just worked for us, she's actually nicest in a bevel bit but not dressage legal and she can't handle the changeover, neither bit would be first choice for a leaner but we've gone through a few and these are just what worked. I've had a load of lessons on trying to stop her leaning and for us the main thing is as soon as she leans and tucks her head in to really send her on and get her head away from her chest. She's definitely worse when tired!

Whats your current response when he leans?