Bit shopping tomorrow.. Can you help me decide?

[Hoof_Prints]

I am planning to take my horses XC training soon, but I think they will certainly need something stronger !

Horse 1 -> Very soft in the mouth for flatwork and general hacking in walk and trot and very well schooled. He has been ridden in a loose ring lozenge snaffle with a wide mouthpiece for jumping up until now- but has been jumped in a kimberwick and 3 ring gag - seemed ok in the kimberwick but leaned on it a tad. gag was used 6 months ago and I forget how it went

when jumping I keep my hands soft as possible as he doesn't like too much contact- which becomes a problem when he gets too fast for his own safety! as he sees a jump and gets a bit enthusiastic and pulls away from me, He is controllable in the snaffle but I have to take a sharp tug every so often and I really don't like doing that he tends to put his head up towards the jump and pull up and forwards. took him xc in the snaffle before and he was ok to steer and jump- but it was very fast and strong !

Horse 2 -> strong little mare! well schooled but does prefer everything at 100mph, usually does everything in a slotted kimberwick on the bottom slot. She will be schooled in a lozenge snaffle fine though. When jumping and hacking she is a tank! leans on the kimberwick and takes your fingers with her. She is ok in the school, but out hacking and cross country she has no respect whatsoever for the bit.

They both went out hacking yesterday and we decided to go for a canter, the mare went off at 100mph and could not be stopped for anything! And my horse (horse 1) took a bloody good haul on the reins to pull up, I made him canter slowly but it required me bridging my reins tightly.

So I was thinking.. I could put horse 1 in the kimberwick but I personally don't like them- I also have a rubber Pelham but I feel horses just lean on them and charge if they want to! possibly a Cheltenham gag? unsure of what mouthpiece though

Horse 2 -> maybe a Waterford gag? tom thumb? Cheltenham gag? something she can't lean on and ignore!

Everyone that rides has soft hands (if possible..) so I'm not concerned about the bits being abused- at the moment they so have a bit of weight sent down the reins in fast/jumping work and it's dangerous for all involved! Ive sat looking at bits for a while now and reading threads but thought i'd just ask myself and see what others say thanks!

 

[Pale Rider]

A bit is of no use, until you don't need it.

 

[dianchi]

I would say horse 1, something like a universal with two reins, that way you can ride off the snaffle till you need to.

Horse 2 Waterford elevator perhaps, to get her head up and off your hands

Just my view tho!

 

[ImmyS]

A bit is of no use, until you don't need it.

Like

 

[Hoof_Prints]

I was thinking maybe two reins ,

Yes i would love them to both be perfectly calm and soft in the mouth at all times, in fact my horse who is 'horse 1' was always ridden in a dutch gag on the strongest setting until i bought him and never put one near him again so he learned to listen to my seat and weight aids rather than rely on hands. Unfortunately i think jumping sends a lot of schooling out of the window and i just want my horses to be safe and not hurt their mouths

 

[SKW]

I was going to suggest a universal for the top one. I have bought the neue schule one for faster work. Mine is in a loose ring snaffle with a lozenge for normal work, and the universal is a step up from this in terms of control, with a similar mouthpiece, and it can be used with 2 reins if you want options while on board! I'm definitely not a bit expert in any way though, so do take some advice from the more knowledgable people on here, it's just what I have for mine.....