Bit suggestions?

C

chestnut cob

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I need a XC/fast work bit for the new boy. 17.1hh IDxTB, but looks and feels more ID than TB.

He schools in a french link with a flash and goes beautifully in it. He also jumps in the arena in the same, but with a martingale as he tends to get his head up. Doesn't really get strong jumping in the school though he loves it.

I need something for XC (I don't do proper eventy sort of XC so the jumps won't be massive) and for general fast work. He is pretty strong cantering in fields, I can't hold him without a real struggle in his usual bit. He does one of two things; either he tucks his head to his chest and pretends he can't "hear" me, or he gets stronger, longer and flatter, until he's leaning so much it rubs my hands (you should have seen the state of them after we went cubbing
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). He doesn't really do anything terribly naughty, he is just strong and gets heavy. On his own we tend to get the head tucked in evasion, and in company it's the storming off, getting longer and stronger one instead (I hope that all makes sense!).

We've been up to the "proper" gallops and we've been cubbing - I can't really hold him at all in either environment. He will stop when everything else stops, but it's not nice knowing there's nothing there in the meantime. It's difficult to explain but suffice to say, I would like more brakes. I spoke to his owner the other day and she said he's always been difficult to hold out in the fields and in company, so at least it's not just me
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So far I have tried the french link (if he's in front that's ok, but we can't always be at the front!), waterford snaffle (leaned on it and set against it, no joke), waterford gag (hated, hated, hated it. Threw his head up and down constantly and was generally uncomfortable in it), and a cherry roller (may as well have gone out in a headcollar for the good that did).

What would you suggest trying? I think we've established that he doesn't like a gag type bit so I want to avoid that, plus it doesn't help with him getting his head into his chest. I have a kimblewick at home which I may try but I think it might be a bit strong - I'd rather have something a bit "different" that makes him think that something that's just strong. However, I'm wondering about a pelham maybe?

Grateful for all suggestions
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PS. Not a naughty pony, doesn't buck, rear, bolt or anything like that. Just LOVES anything involving going fast in straight lines
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Sounds a bit like my boy... and I've had most success using straight bar, happy mouth type bits. Initially it was an American gag with this mouth piece, but now traded down to three ring, happy mouth straight bar dutch gag, also use a pelham ( straight, happy mouth again!) for quieter outings still. .. I had tried tom thumb, waterford hanging, cheltenham gag and he hated all them, but they were all metal and jointed.
 
He is fine with jointed bits, just not single joints. He really nicely in a french link on the flat and for jumping, he's just too big and strong to hold in that out cantering (and I suspect will be the same XC, going by how he was hunting).

He won't like the three ring gag, whatever mouth piece. I did try one on him and he loathed it, but he's v touchy about his head and ears so whether the poll pressure upset him I don't know.

I might try him in an American gag, thanks. I am leaning towards a vulcanite pelham though I think... Having said that, he does need a flash and I can't use one with a pelham can I....
 
I use a flash with a pelham and have also used a grakle with one.
Have you tried something like this
We are trying a big ex racer in this as he is to strong in his snaffle but hates poll pressure.
 
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I use a flash with a pelham and have also used a grakle with one.
Have you tried something like this
We are trying a big ex racer in this as he is to strong in his snaffle but hates poll pressure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Irishcobs. I presume that works because he can't get hold of it at, and the roller in the middle takes away the nutcracker action he didn't like in the cherry roller? Are you finding it has much more effect than a waterford snaffle would do? He just leaned on the waterford and took hold...
 
Possibly a myler comfort snaffle. I used to ride mine in a french link but he did lean on it out hacking. I put him in a myler MB02 hanging cheek and he doesn't lean. I think it's more because it suits his mouth better. He was fine in the french link in the school.

One other thing, bridge your reins. That way he only leans on himself.
 
Dr bristol? Would stop him leaning too much but still has the douuble jointedness of the french link. French link pelham may help too?
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The snaffle irishcobs has suggested is lovely, but tbh wont do anything with stronger horses in my experience....
 
I'd try him in a straight bar or french link hanging mouth with a Kineton noseband personally -
http://divoza.co.uk/product774.aspx

That way, the bit won't be so harsh that he's tempted to tuck his nose in and evade the action - yet the kineton will put pressure on his face rather than his mouth when he runs away.

Good luck anyway!
 
I too would try a myler comfort snaffle I used to get tanked off with regularly xc but since changing to the myler we have brakes and steering I think he likes the extra room in his mouth with the port and I like the independent movement which makes it harder to grab hold of
 
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Possibly a myler comfort snaffle. I used to ride mine in a french link but he did lean on it out hacking. I put him in a myler MB02 hanging cheek and he doesn't lean. I think it's more because it suits his mouth better. He was fine in the french link in the school.

One other thing, bridge your reins. That way he only leans on himself.

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Should also have said I have tried a wide barrel Myler Comfort Snaffle, sorry! He just lets it slide through his mouth, even with a flash on.

Bridging the reins is fine as an emergency procedure but I can't bridge my reins all day if we're hunting, I do need a bitting solution. Plus pony wouldn't care if he was leaning on himself, he's just a big, strong lad who wants to go!
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I would secong the Dr. Bristol. CAn be quiet a strong bit but he sounds like it may suit him as he does not like gags. If not try a pelham type bit, I had one that loved a pelham but would not go forward in dr. bristol but another who was complete opposite and was great in dr. bristol xcountry and hunting
 
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I would secong the Dr. Bristol. CAn be quiet a strong bit but he sounds like it may suit him as he does not like gags. If not try a pelham type bit, I had one that loved a pelham but would not go forward in dr. bristol but another who was complete opposite and was great in dr. bristol xcountry and hunting

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Thanks
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Another livery actually suggested a Dr Bristol so I'm going to give that a go and see what he thinks of it. I think a change of noseband might also be in order and I liked the look of the Kineton someone posted. I've tried a grackle which was ok but not brilliant, plus he doesn't cross his jaw so not really necessary...
 
We are trying this bit as he hates the waterford, he just didn't no what to do with his self in it.
He quite likes this bit though and so far doesn't stick his head out and go like he does in his snaffle but tomorrow will tell when he goes hunting in it.
 
As he leans, I would suggest a gag which will raise the bit in his mouth so he cant lean on it. I have my horse who puts his chin onto his girth(no joke) and lean on the bit at the same time as bucking and twisting in a neue schule universal bit with a translozenge centre and a flash. Works a treat and it is milder than a traditional gag as the rings are off set.

Otherwise I would recommend a Dr Bristol, this bit is verstatile in that it can have 2 different strengths depending on what way round you sit it in the mouth. My horse went well in a Dr Bristol, but I couldnt get one in 6.5".

I would also recommend having your horse's teeth checked.
 
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As he leans, I would suggest a gag which will raise the bit in his mouth so he cant lean on it. I have my horse who puts his chin onto his girth(no joke) and lean on the bit at the same time as bucking and twisting in a neue schule universal bit with a translozenge centre and a flash. Works a treat and it is milder than a traditional gag as the rings are off set.

Otherwise I would recommend a Dr Bristol, this bit is verstatile in that it can have 2 different strengths depending on what way round you sit it in the mouth. My horse went well in a Dr Bristol, but I couldnt get one in 6.5".

I would also recommend having your horse's teeth checked.

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Teeth were done before Xmas so please don't assume that just because my horse leans during fast work, I wouldn't have his teeth checked. Just reminded me of why I stopped posting on HHO so long ago, so judgemental. Of course I have had his teeth done, do you really think I would post on here asking for suggestions if I hadn't already done the obvious?
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By gag I think you mean an American rather than Dutch? He hates any sort of poll pressure and responds to it by throwing his head in the air (and I don't just mean once or twice, I mean throwing it around, leaping on the spot and getting quite upset).

We've been out for a canter and gallop today; took him in the waterford snaffle and he actually went really well in it. I think it just wasn't enough for hunting, but maybe ok for general fast work after all. I am going to borrow a Dr Bristol to try as well though.
 
Have you ever tried putting a curb onto the gag? I know it would still be some poll pressure but it should reduce it a bit. It also stops the cheekpieces coming up so much towards their eyes which might be happening. This is the only thing that stops my welsh running like a train without the curb I might aswell be in a headcollar. I just use a leather strap rather than a proper chain or anything.
 
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Have you ever tried putting a curb onto the gag? I know it would still be some poll pressure but it should reduce it a bit. It also stops the cheekpieces coming up so much towards their eyes which might be happening. This is the only thing that stops my welsh running like a train without the curb I might aswell be in a headcollar. I just use a leather strap rather than a proper chain or anything.

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Thanks, it is worth a go. I'll try the waterford again first then the Dr Bristol, but may give this a go if I have no luck
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Re bridging the reins - sorry. I just thought I'd suggest it to save your hands but yes it's definately not ideal for long periods of time!

Quite difficult if he resents poll pressure. Definately worth tying the curb strap on a gag as someone has suggested above. I found a flash strap is a good substitute as the 'proper' curb straps for these bits aren't that cheap and you can usually lay hand on a flash strap somewhere! I was going to suggest a single jointed snaffle but you say you have tried a cherry roller which is single jointed.

Dr Bristol is definately worth a try as suggested. There was one other bit I was thinking of but couldn't remember what it was called until now hence I came back to look for this post. It's called an magenis and I remembered an article on here by Mary King (I think it was her?) about them. It has rollers within a square single jointed mouthpiece. Similar to a cherry roller but much more effective. There is also the old fashioned twisted snaffle. It worked on Milton!!

Hope you find the right bit. It does make such a difference when you do.
 
Thanks suzysparkle, that's all really helpful
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I've heard people mention a magenis (sp) on here before so will do a search.

I've got a spare bridle so I can use the flash off that with the gag - presume you would attach it to the bubbles on the snaffle ring?

What I could really do with is him being a hand or so smaller, then I might be able to ride him properly
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