Bit suggests for a cob cross tank?

[ShadowFlame]

Or that's what it feels like! So, coblet is a 5 year old, standard cobby mouth with little room in it and a big tongue. We started off in an eggbutt snaffle, he disliked the nutcracker action and we had a giraffe impression every time I picked up the reins. I changed him to a happy mouth, he chewed through it. We then got a Neue Schule starter bit which he was much happier in, but after a while the brakes became a bit of a concern. We then bumped it up to a NS hanging cheek. Better, but the brakes are still an issue.

Now, when we're calm, and we're schooling on our own, the hanging cheek is perfect. He listens to it, he likes it. However, if we're schooling with others, can see others or are out hacking (especially in a large group), he tends to just set himself and go. In walk he'll be okay, but the minute we hit trot / canter / jogging I just can't hold him, and no matter how much I pull on those reins (which I hate doing), there's just no stopping him. As he gets faster he brings his head up, so looking for something that lowers.

Can anyone offer any suggestions? Dutch gag? Wilkie? Kimblewick? Pelham? Waterford? Something else entirely? Thanks guys!

 

[Ladyinred]

Our cobby leans dreadfully and, like yours can't cope with the nutcracker action. We went for a French link but he leans. Tried a Happy Mouth... he leans (and chews.) Tried the french link with a running martingale for when the head went up.. he leans and head went down instead!!

An English hackamore solved all the problems but no good for many competitions. At least he now stops and doesn't stretch our arms.

 

[Chocy]

Waterford & think u can get them with hanging cheek sides if he seems 2 like that

 

[CobsGalore]

Your horse sounds very similar to my old cob, I tried every bit under the sun but eventually found that he went very nicely in a Waterford.

However, I also found that the more I pulled the more tense he would get, and the higher his head carriage too. I found sitting deep in the saddle, relaxing, and giving little half halts worked far better than any bit on the market. After a year or so of being consistent I could ride him in a French link, but still went back to the Waterford if hacking out in a group when he tended to be a little silly!

 

[spike123]

your horse sounds exactly like mine. I have the added problem of a scar through his tongue which means I have to be careful about bitting. I find he goes nicely schooling with the hanging cheek snaffle but use a slotted kimblewick for everything else. I can then adjust the reins to the situation and have the added bonus of the curb action if needed.

 

[Bojingles]

Your horse sounds very similar to my old cob, I tried every bit under the sun but eventually found that he went very nicely in a Waterford.

You could be describing my girl! I too find she leans in a French link but goes well in a Waterford.

However, I also found that the more I pulled the more tense he would get, and the higher his head carriage too.

And if I get tense and pull, she pulls right back and the head goes up, especially in trot when we gather such speed I'm sure we could win races . For hacking I swap the loose ring Waterford for a hanging cheek Waterford.

Seems there's a bit of a bitting theme going on with these cobs!

 

[Maverick895]

My cob used to do the same, went down the route of stronger and stronger bit! Couldn't ride outside of an indoor school with a snaffle or he would set his chest and go! Found what helped was when I couldn't use the facilities any longer and only place to ride was open field, taking it slowly and practising stopping with as little rein as possible, using seat and voice for ages until he was responsive. Quickly went into a snaffle again, found with much trial and error he goes best in a loose-ring french link, made of sweet iron. He did lean on one side but in a slightly bigger bit he goes fantastic! Occasionally chucking the reins at him so he knows to carry himself helps too I found it was pretty much a schooling thing and after a lot of persistance and hard work he had brakes, carried himself well and stopped his tanking nonsense! Showing I use a vulcanite pelham with double reins and he is more than responsive of it now

 

[Shay]

My cob too! Although he does accept a french link. We use a dutch gag to hunt, and pretty much everything else, and a mylar snaffle for flatwork / dressage. The flexibility in the mylar bit really suited him and we found he would soften and become really round. But if we worked in it every day that effect was lost. So now we just keep it for ODEs, PC dressage, camp etc.

 

[Jools1234]

putting a stronger bit in often just creates a dead mouth so they pull harder

i would try a waterford as its design means its difficult to lean on,

if he is difficult when he is not alone in the school as well as outside maybe its an issue with schooling and lack of understanding.

how long has he been backed/by whom, how often is he worked/doing what, does he live in/out and what do you feed him? are all questions i would be reviewing in your situation as all things things could be having an effect.

hauling on their mouths will not stop them they are stronger than us

 

[wallykissmas]

I found with mine it wasn't a bit issue but a schooling/hacking issue. I found getting a safe hacking partner and doing lots of it has really helped . His previous owner had him as a 4.5 yr old in a Dutch gag, he couldn't and didn't go forward instead would trot very slowly with high knee action, head in the air and hop in to canter when ever he felt like it.

This has now taken a French link fulmer, very similar metal to a nueschule and plenty of hacking to undo the idea in his he'd he can't go forward . In the school I have a very nice pro rider helping me as my legs are rubbish. After just one lesson he looked and acted very different.

 

[Shysmum]

I would suggest having a break from the bit, and trying a hackamore ? It's a total change of control and might just make him think. obviously use it in the school first and see how you get on. Get the teeth checked too.

Then gradually reintroduce the bit (and the waterford sounds ideal). I only suggest this as I use both on my lad.

Another trick is to use a daisy rein, to stop him being able to get his head down and "set".

let us know what happens x

 

[Blitzen]

I was advised by a bitting expert to get a Myler comfort mouth short shank combination bit for my mare. Unfortunately she HATED the tightening action of the noseband, but obviously having ridden her in it I could not send it back. Sooo... I chopped the rope 'noseband' off and now am effectively left with a gag, which she had before but she loves the Myler comfort snaffle mouthpiece, and the sliding action of the loose ring through the floating mouthpiece is stopped by a small bar, so it can only rotate so far and cannot exert masses of poll pressure. Quite a clever piece of kit really! Hate to see dutch gags on the bottom ring being pulled so hard that the rings are horizontal
I use mine with either roundings or double reins depending on what I'm doing - double reins for schooling, hacking and hunting, roundings for jumping when I have a short whip to contend with and don't want to end up with a ball of knitting. But have been using roundings for everything for the past 2 weeks as I have a broken finger
Have to say she goes well in a loose ring waterford too, but not really for fast hacking in company, and I wouldn't want to hunt in one. Same goes for a pelham - she goes nicely in it when she's calm and listening, but if I were to hunt in it and needed brakes when she was tanking it would be no good, as soon as the curb comes into play she shakes her head, pokes her nose out, puts it between her knees, pokes it out again, all the time shake-shake-shake so its a no go for fast work but fine for showing or WH when she's relatively calm.
Am considering borrowing a hackamore to try on her, as the Myler still isn't perfect (obviously, as I had to chop it up!) but its the best we have found so far

 

[ShadowFlame]

Interesting replies, guys. Sounds like these cobs are much alike!

f he is difficult when he is not alone in the school as well as outside maybe its an issue with schooling and lack of understanding.

how long has he been backed/by whom, how often is he worked/doing what, does he live in/out and what do you feed him? are all questions i would be reviewing in your situation as all things things could be having an effect.

hauling on their mouths will not stop them they are stronger than us

He isn't difficult, in any way, shape or form. He just gets himself excited and he becomes difficult to hold. I'd rather have him in a slightly stronger bit rather than battle him in a milder one. He was backed last December by myself, he's been in work on and off since then. Currently being worked 5 days per week which includes hacking, schooling and lunging. He has no hard feed (bar a handful of chaff) and he's living out at the mo. He's not nasty, and he doesn't fight a contact. He just gets excited and completely switches off to the bit. I'm working on schooling, but I am a little concerned about the bouncing and excitement when we're out on the roads!

Might try and pick up a cheap waterford, kimblewick and a hackamore to try them out. Thanks for the advice

 

[Jools1234]

'not difficlut in anyway' but 'difficult to hold'

if he ignores the bit i would start with re-schooling i understand wht you are saying about the struggle with a milder bit but hauling on his mouth in a mild one or chucking a more severe one in-neither is the answer for me but obviously i have not seen him-IMO a harsher bit creates a harsher mouth

 

[ShadowFlame]

Okay, it's been a long day, and I didn't word that the best. I don't see excitement as being difficult, but I do see that having no respect for the bit is an issue. He is being schooled, and as I said he responds perfectly to his hanging cheek while he's calm and there's no distractions. However, once he loses focus or gets excited, that's when the brakes fail (and let's face it, no amount of schooling is going to take away how exciting blasting it across a field is - and I'd like to be able to stop at some point!!).

I HATE hauling on his mouth, but you can't really drop your reins and leave them to tank it when you're out on the roads...

 

[loulabelle]

He sounds very simialr to one of my horses, we tried him in a englidh hackamore and alothough he no longer thre his head in the air he wasn't as responsive as I would have like.
Afte tryin out what felt like hundrds of bits throught the bit bank finally found one he work well in....a waterford baucher, he can no longer hang on the bit. He still does hold his head slightly high but his now only doing this in trot and is more of a habit for him so have brought a bungy riding aid to help get him out of this

 

[tinap]

Our cob is also a leaner who cannot stand a single joint.

He came to us in a hanging cheek Waterford which my daughter found was not quite enough for her to have control so we were advised to swap to a Waterford 3 ring gag. He has been very happy in this for the last 4yrs with the reins just on the 2nd ring. We have managed to get him in a copper full cheek snaffle with a lozenge for dressage & for at home though as she only needs the stronger bit when out jumping xx

 

[popeyesno1fan]

I swear by french links, but once did threaten to put a chainsaw in a horses mouth, he totally ran away with me with a 3 ring snaffle on the bottom link, we passed the hounds at one point, although, same horse, i dont think that a chainsaw would have slowed him down, lol. I do think french links are great, but if you really need brakes, then kimblewick or pelham, maybe. xx

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I ride my tank in a NS Universal with 2 reins, this way the curb only comes into play if needed, the rest of the time I ride on the snaffle rein. She happily schools in a NS Tranz.
I have also used a PeeWee bit successfully on horses with fat tongues and fleshy lips who weren't good at listening to the rider, again this is a very mild bit until its side pieces need to come into play, then it is effective very quickly.

 

[Highlands]

My 7 year old cob is very strong. Had an arm op in summer and no way I wanted to be hauled. She goes best in a Pelham, jointed with double reins. Dressage hanging Myler. Don't be scared to have something stronger you can tweak rather than having to haul at.

 

[mcnaughty]

Try looking at a Swales - they are designed for cobs that lean.

 

[hayinamanger]

I'm a NS fan. I have the Waterford in hanging cheek and universal styles, they are nice bits for a strong cob, no pulling required. The NS Elevator with a waterford mouthpiece is also a possibility. I'd give NS a ring, they are very helpful.

 

[Suechoccy]

When they're excited, they tend to lean and go on the forehand so that makes them "feel" stronger in the mouth so you pull so they lean so no brakes.

Concentrate on keeping them back and up, hocks under, front end light, then they can't pull so much.

Try a flash noseband rather than a stronger bit. Sometimes they open their mouth when they pull. The flash keeps their mouth closed which then keeps the bit in the correct place rather than them opening their mouths and getting the bit pulling back on the wrong bit.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Pelham with tongue groove and double reins. A similar feel to your current hanging snaffle, less pressure on the tongue and with curb action when you need it.

 

[Highlands]

Try looking at a Swales - they are designed for cobs that lean.

Would be really careful trying one of these. Fine if you know what you are doing but this is a big step up and if you are unsure how to ride in one then seek a lot of advice.

 

[ShadowFlame]

Thanks for all the replies. Can't say I've ever ridden (or would know where to start!) with double reins, so I'm off to look into some second hand waterfords and the like.

Suechoccy - that sounds a lot like what he does. Out of interest, how do you suggest keeping him back and up?

 

[Jools1234]

Thanks for all the replies. Can't say I've ever ridden (or would know where to start!) with double reins, so I'm off to look into some second hand waterfords and the like.

Suechoccy - that sounds a lot like what he does. Out of interest, how do you suggest keeping him back and up?

if thats what he does you need to go bsck to schooling which is what some of us have beeen saying

 

[ShadowFlame]

And as I've been saying, we ARE schooling