Bite work query

skinnydipper

skinnydipper

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 February 2018
Messages
7,846
Visit site
I am going to show my complete ignorance when it comes to protection sports.

As far I can understand, the dogs regard bite training as a game with the bite as a reward, the sleeve as a toy and possession of the sleeve a reward. (I've probably got that wrong). In pursuit, the sleeve seems to almost be offered to the dog by the decoy.

My questions are:

How do you transfer this game to real life (Police, Military, etc), when you would want the dog to bite and mean it and there would be no hessian sleeve or bite suit in sight?

Would a dog who excels at protection sports necessarily have what it takes to do the job for real? I know that CC will probably tell me its all down to genetics :D

I've probably got the terminology (and everything else) wrong but I hope you know what I mean and can sort me out.
 
Last edited:
Just as a disclaimer, I don't do a 'protection sport' per se, I take part in a multi-phase discipline designed as a breeding selection tool, of which the protection phase is just one part and biting is an even smaller part of that. But it's the part that tells you about what's 'in' the dog and what he gets from his ancestors.

It is a game in the sense that almost all training is developed through prey drive (chase, hold prey full, calmly, firmly, confidently) and no one really wants dog that feels it has to be on the defence all the time in civilian or police life.
As well as wanting to possess and hold an object, a dog also has to have the courage and desire to stop someone who wants to take the object from them, or is prepared go through a stressful situation in order to retain it and come out the other side, IYSWIM. The handler owns the object and is kindly allowing the dog to collect and hold it for them ;)
For me, I always have the mindset, this is me and the dog, working as a team, against the decoy. And when we're finished, we're finished and we're all mates.
My dogs live with me in the house and walk up the high street and like cuddles, I have no need for a 'Land Shark' or a 'Real Dog'.
At big competitions you can see dogs stripping sleeves and either going on a victory lap with it or pushing it into the decoy to say 'come on, let's go again'.
Biting the helper anywhere else on the body is a DQ.

I cannot speak for police dog trainers but the equipment they use is a lot more discreet and they have the facilities and people to train different scenarios.
Police training still includes targeted areas on the body, but I don't think they are so fussy and they are not so concerned with deep, calm, full grips, which judges would issue big points for ;)

A lot of dogs can and do transfer the skills, some dogs do both, either concurrentiy or before or after.
If it wasn't for civilians breeding, there wouldn't be any police dogs.
It absolutely is all down to genetics,
the ones who are trained that 'it's a game, gimme a toy', if they don't have the mental strength, are the ones less likely to succeed when issued with a real threat in the real world IMO because the toy isn't worth the effort if it is shouting and screaming and kicking at them.
 
planete said:
I can recommend a read of "Fabulous Finn" by Dave Wardell for an insight into police dog work.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Planete.

I bought Fabulous Finn because I admired the dog but couldn't finish reading it, it wasn't my cup of tea at all. I was totally uninterested in the author's mental health issues TBH and that topic took up too much print for my liking.

I did enjoy Trident K9 Warriors though :)

Perhaps we should have a book recommendation thread, its probably be done in the past but I am still a relatively "new girl" to the forum and might have been before my time.
 
Last edited:
CorvusCorax said:
So That Others May Live hy Caroline Hebard is excellent. More about SAR than police dogs.
Click to expand...

Yup, read that one thanks. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

What a marvellous, inspiring woman. I was sad to read that she died from cancer at only 63.

It isn't so much that Police dogs that interest me - its bigger (much bigger) than that :D.
 
Last edited:
I recall the Police Dog Section being called to an attempted burglary at 3am at a premises where my OH was a key holder. I had driven OH there because he had a glass of vino but waited in the car for him while he checked the premises with a police escort, because they were unsure if the burglars were still on the premises. Cue radio message to say the the dog section had arrived and the dog was being set loose to track...I ended up with 3 PCs in the back of the car seeking cover, while the rest locked themselves in the police van. Hilarious, they were absolutely terrified of the dog, which was then in full on work mode. When they were stood down 20 minutes later the dog returned to waggy soppy self.
 
Stiff Knees said:
Skinny Dipper, you're fooling no one with your "It isn't so much that Police dogs interest me - it's bigger (much bigger) than that".

We all know that translates to: I go weak at the knees for a man in uniform ?
Click to expand...

And what pray tell is wrong with that? ? When I was much younger I went to work for Thames Valley Police simply because I liked men in uniform ????
 
We used to joke that Spot would have made an excellent SAR dog - but only if it was the local butcher who went missing !
Joking aside though, my Uncle is a total hero, he once suffered broken ribs and a punctured lung during an exercise to winch a badly injured fisherman from a trawler in a howling gale with 30 foot seas. He completed the rescue, very likely saved the man's life, and was then himself taken to hospital where he was admitted for 10 days. These people are superhuman and deserve our absolute respect. Throw a dog into the mix and you've got an unbeatable combination. My Uncle didn't work with dogs (obvs) but he has done a fair few cliff rescues where dogs have fallen and needed winching to safety.
 
A woman named Cat Warren has also written a book on working dogs and scent. I believe that she did SAR with her previous GSD. Her young one is about the same age as my youngster, so not operational at the moment.
My Rudy has sired 3 SAR dogs in his 2 litters. His uncle was a working police K-9 and was/is widely used to sire working K-9s and SAR dogs.
A few weeks ago I was out training tracking with a friend. Several of the local counties were training building searches in an empty property that is surrounded by the park. Mainly a bunch of Malinois but some GSDs. The Malis seemed frantic going to and from the vehicles. Give me a clear headed GSD any day. (Yes, my breedism is showing.)
 
Thanks, GSD woman.

I've got What the Dog Knows. I've also read Scent of the Missing by Susannah Charleson.

So That Others May Live is the one I most enjoyed.

As you have probably gathered my interest in dogs is wide ranging and unrestricted ;)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top