bitless riders- advice needed please

[stormox]

Due to my young TB getting cracks in the corners of his mouth ( possibly due to using a happy-mouth bit that was slightly too large) after a couple of days off I thought Id better give him some excercise (he cant be turned out as he jumps out of fields) and rode him in a headcollar with reins attached.
I found that instead of keeping his head and neck steady, a soft mouth and taking the contact with the bit forwards and downwards so he worked nicely over his back he put his head up and hollowed, especially at canter, whether I took a contact on his nose or not, and he also relaxed and flapped his bottom lip, despite me using my legs to keep the impulsion.
How do you people who ride regularly in a bitless bridle manage to get the horses head down? When he has a bit in I can just massage the bit very gently whilst using my legs and he will drop his head and increase impulsion from behind. I cannot seem to get the same effect with no bit.....

 

[huskydamage]

I don't lol but then I'm not into schooling or anything, just happy hack. I only use bit for hunting. Mine has a high head carriage anyway even with a bit. I ride with pretty loose contact I try not to interfere too much tbh. She will lengthen her neck, but she doesn't really lower her head unless tired or finding something hard work. Part of the reason I ride bitless is so she can be more comfortable I let her decide where to hold her head. I'm sure someone else on here will have a better answer though!

 

[NZJenny]

Lateral bend. Lots of changes of direction, asking horse to step under with inside hind. No massaging of bit required, with or without one.

 

[Dumbo]

Following...!
I ride my TB bitless and bitted. He's happier bitless but works better in a bit. I'd love to do the bitless dressage championships but schooled yesterday and couldn't get him round. It's something I'm working on!

 

[wench]

Riding in a head collar won't give the same effect as a "proper" Bitless bridle. If you are desperate to ride in a head collar try a dually over anything ride.

Also as I am sure you know, it's not all about getting the horses head down

 

[stormox]

when i say 'massaging' NZ jenny, I mean thats how I taught him to drop his head and take a contact, by jiggling my fingers on one side, not really moving the bit around, but now he will just take the bit and find himself a contact and'carry himself' while keeping the contact, which enabled him to work from behind into the contact.
But I cant get the same effect with the headcollar, which surprised me rather.( I dont intend to ride bitless for long, just till his mouth heals and I can try a smaller thinner steel bit which I am assured by my saddler will not cause a sore mouth like the friction on the happy mouth has.)

 

[wench]

As above. You won't get the same response from a head collar, as firstly it's not designed to ride in, and secondly you havent trained your horse in what you want him to do when ridden Bitless.

 

[Barnacle]

If your horse was developed properly towards self-carriage, it would not matter whether it was in a bitted or bitless bridle and would work from behind on its own. I understand what you've done but as you've taught the horse to carry itself a certain way as if it were a "trick" rather than working towards making this its natural way of going when carrying a rider, you have to re-teach the "trick" with a new cue since your old cue was the bit and now you don't have it. Just like you trained your horse to work a certain way when you jiggle the bit, you have to do the same with the headcollar - train the horse from scratch to do this to a different cue. If you're going to do it this way, I suggest you use a leg or seat aid as you'll always have those at your disposal.

 

[buzyizzy]

Lateral bend. Lots of changes of direction, asking horse to step under with inside hind. No massaging of bit required, with or without one.

Hallelujah!!!!
Delighted to read this))))

 

[Red-1]

I had a mare do BS in a Hackamore, she would go "on the bit" no issues. To me it is about the horse lifting through the middle, thus lowering each end!

We used transitions and turns. I found that the horse actually needed less pressure, as she would fold herself up with the weight of the metal part and rein, so it was never tight.

I like the thought that the reins control the thoughts of the horse, not the horse itself directly.

At the moment we are looking for a new horse, and I have been disappointed in how many horses make the right 'shape' but when you release the contact they do not seek forward in a gentle and enquiring way, but instead hold a false outline. Even more disappointing are those that become tense when the front is gently released and actually become choppy.

 

[planete]

Hallelujah!!!!
Delighted to read this))))

Double hallelujah!

 

[Speedyfluff]

OP could your 'jiggling' of the bit have led to his soreness issues? Horses should feel really light in the hand and not heavy 'on a contact'. I find an English hackamore is a great bitless option. Horses will work correctly when wearing one and you can do everything that you can do with a bit. I wouldn't expect any horse to go in a schooling outline in a head collar.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

OP could your 'jiggling' of the bit have led to his soreness issues? Horses should feel really light in the hand and not heavy 'on a contact'. .

It seems very likely.

If only riders understood how a horse is meant to move, with the impulsion coming from behind in response to leg and seat aids, without any bit jiggling, or indeed, any necessity for contact.


OP,have you tried riding without reins? This is something we were all expected to do in a lesson, years ago, as a matter of course. Now, no-one seems to be able to do it.

 

[stormox]

I think 'jiggling' was the wrong word to use, the instructor (BHSI) called it massaging the mouth, I think of it more like keeping the hands very soft but just wiggling the ring fingers to encourage the horse onto a contact. And yes, I can ride 20m circles and fig of 8s holding the buckle with one hand, and the other hand on my knee. And jump.
I think the split lip was caused by the bit being rubber/plastic and fairly thick, the split has now healed (pile creams good ) and I have had no problem since I put him back into the metal bit. Nor did I have any problems in the months I used the metal bit before I thought Id be kind and change to the rubbery one.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

it doesn't matter whether you call it jiggling or massaging or anything else. peoples' responses here show they know what you mean, it's just not a method some of them agree with and they've told you how to go about things in a different way. if you don't want to do things a different way or as one poster said use a different cue to achieve your old method, then you'll need to go back to a bit because there are no shortcuts or quick fixes when you're bitless.

 

[stormox]

I certainly dont want to go without a bit permanently, it was just as I was having to ride in a headcollar and not getting the same response as with a bit I was wondering how people who regularly didnt use bits encouraged a naturally high-headed horse to lower the head.
I am also curious to know whether the videos of horses performing dressage type movements with just a neck rope,or headcollar, originally trained their horses with normal tack then graduated to the neck rope,or if they had always used just the rope right from breaking......

 

[Ladyinred]

Double hallelujah!

Hallelujah chorus!!