Bitless with a strong, sharp pony?

[metalmare]

I've been dithering for a long time over the idea of trying a bitless bridle and I'm even more interested having just looked at the orbitless that a forum user has on her pony.

I have a typical spooky, strong welsh pony. He isn't strong at all times; he's usually light and likes a light contact. But he can be difficult to pull up from a fast canter, or when he spins and tries to run home or sometimes he just marches / jogs around the whole ride, depending on his mood on the day.

My trimmer suggested simply riding with a halter under my normal bridle at first to see how he goes in that.

What are people's experiences?

 

[webble]

I tried a few different types with a welsh cross spooky naughty mare. the hackamore was probably the most successful. She hated the Dr Cook and tried to spin and take off home in it. It took a lot of strength to stop her and she hated the constriction around her head and started shaking it a lot as I pulled her up

I think it depends on the horse or pony. I would do lots of practice in the school to start to see how he reacts to it

 

[metalmare]

A hackamore would certainly be a cheaper option to start off with... some of them are a big outlay if they then fail (like the Dr Cook).

Sadly we have no school so this adventure will have to be when the grounds thaws and drains, whenever that might be It also means I'll probably get rodeoed across the field with, as doubtless he has 'forgotten' that we ride in the paddock!

 

[ameeyal]

I have a welch pony, that is SSSOOO strong when cantering, he pulls like a train i ride him in a hackamore which he listens to.

 

[jinglejoys]

Its not about the tack its about the training

 

[ZoeCharlotte]

From what I've seen, a hackamore tends to be a bit stronger than the Dr Cooks, but on a horse that rushed terribly when jumping both have been very effective at making him listen. I think it's possible to return a Dr Cooks for a refund within a month if it's ineffective, so might be worth a try and you can always have a go at something different if it doesn't work.

 

[Fransurrey]

Henry is quite strong in a bit, but rarely fights the side pull. Chloe is very spooky as she's mentally and baby, but can't say I've had any problems using the same bridle.

 

[daisydoo]

There's a multi bitless bridle available called matrix, it consists of sidepull, head hugger liks dr cooks and some other variations I believe to see which suits. I'd have a go training and riding in a rope halter in an enclosed area to start with. As someone else said its all about the training.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

my friend does long distance endurance on a strong pulling arab and he rides him in a hackamore (one with the thin long metal vertical bars hanging down, sorry dont know whether thats German or English hackamore) and they get on very well, he is a very good and light rider and this means he doesnt have to hang onto him all the time.

his wife tried a Dr Cook with her Fell pony but found it terrifying and pony didnt have any brakes at all - she went back to bitted.

 

[claribella]

I'd also recommend starting in a rope halter first but I do also like the matrix as you can decide which bridle you and horse prefer with just one outlay of money rather than trying lots of diff ones and paying each time. You might also find that your horse is totally diff anyway. I have a mare who was the same as yours n a bit but with groundwork and bitless she is very diff.

 

[metalmare]

Its not about the tack its about the training

And he does go reasonably nicely 95% of the time and is light in hand, but I defy anyone to completely bombproof a pony of his nature; something new will always come along and scare the life out of him and his reaction is often a 180 spin towards home and a short canter down the road. In a bit I know I can hold him... I just want to be sure I will be safe in a bitless.

My hope is that it may, as one poster has said on here, actually relax him and make him lighter.

I am a light rider, light on the pony's mouth and I never give him anything to pull against when cantering; he has to balance himself, so no issues with getting into a tug of war or anything like that; he isn't ridden like that.

There are lots of interesting suggestions here to look into, thank you.

 

[daisydoo]

Bear in mind that if he is already spooked any pulling on the bit, intentionally or not will cause him to want to run away from the pressure not give. Sometimes a bit can be a false sense of security in that respect, I'm sure you know this as obviously you want to try an alternative but it doesn't sound that the bit is the primary issue. But I would seriously work on picking up on when he is just about to spook and spin so he doesnt even manage to spin round and try to keep his mind on you, circle away from the spin, move forward. Schooling bitless, well plenty of schooling full stop will be beneficial. You can never do enough desensitising either! Umbrellas, balloons, tarpaulin get inventive it all helps with confidence of new situations and new 'scary' objects. It's all a huge never ending learning curve for all of us, you'll get there.

 

[metalmare]

I'm very good at stopping spins now; I know him pretty well and it is very very rare he will manage a spin on me (I only have to hold my hands low and wide as if asking him to work long and low and it blocks him). Rarely do we have an incident on a hack. He now passes tractors, sheep, etc reasonably well. He just needed to learn to get to know me and trust me. He prefers to shoot forward a few steps now as he knows he can't spin, or to run backwards, but he never goes far.

But there is always that 'what if?' lingering.

He's usually okay with things he can see, especially if we can pass them rather than them passing us... it's smells and noises that send him occasionally into a blind panic. Once we rode past some people working on a roof with power tools making a smokey smell and he could smell it from miles away, long before I knew what the issue was. He lathered up into a sweat, stuck his head in the air, showed the whites of his eyes and jogged about 5 miles home. You name it, I tried it... sending him forward, trotting, transitions, turning him, getting off and leading, more contact, less contact, giving him the rein... he was beyond reasoning with (and he trusts me more than anyone). This is very rare but he has the potential. I think a bitless would have been no better or worse in this situation.

I realise that if a bit is causing pain he will run and I think he will probably go well bitless, but I've never ridden any horse without a bit, so it's just getting up the courage to go for it.

When I first got him he was too strong to lead in a headcollar and I used a halter, which he behaved perfectly in, so I know even when he is being strong he respects pressure on the nose, but from a thinner material.

I have plenty of schooling planned, but I've had him under a year and in that time we've had to work through trust issues, rodeoing and getting used to routines, as well as catch up on lots of care that hadn't been kept up such as vaccinations and tooth rasping. This month he is having the physio out as he has uneven muscle development and he is also having a new saddle asap. We don't have a school and the paddocks have been a write off for months so it's hacking only, though I do school on hacks.

So in that time we have come a long way in terms of understanding each other and I can now take him on 15 mile rides over level crossings and little wooden bridges and past scary animals like donkeys and a range of vehicles, so we're making progress, but I know there is lots more to be made.

I have no intention of just sticking him in a bitless and expecting a magical cure... I enjoy training. But we have to work within the limitations we have with the resources we've got.

My goal is a relaxed horse who goes on a light contact and has correct muscle development, who enjoys work and is comfortable in his tack. That's it.

Hopefully with the help of the physio, a new saddle and dry paddocks so we can resume schooling in the spring we can get there and I'm excited about trying bitless as I think it will be a part of the picture.

 

[metalmare]

Can I just thank everyone as well for directing me to the matrix bridle... the website is a lovely resource and the bridle looks fab... I think this will be my choice!

I've been keeping ponies barefoot and out 24/7 for years now, so bitless is the natural next step and I'm very excited about taking the plunge.

If you're wondering about the hypocrisy of my signature photo, this is the first time I rode him when I went to try him out and as soon as I got him home the flash and the martingale were dispensed with... and he chilled out

 

[daisydoo]

Sounds like you have it all covered! I'll be using the matrix when I start my mare next year. Another option, the micklem - as you have the option of using a bit at the same time as the bitless use, so at least you have it there to use as a backup if you feel you need it!

 

[metalmare]

I've got a reasonable level of understanding and the right sort of attitude (I research and ask advice, etc)... what I lack is long years of experience and that's where you guys come in and where I'm never too proud to get a second opinion. But it's always tricky on forums as you don't want to bore people with an essay as your first post, but it's hard to gage someone's situation without knowing them and without tons of info.

To be fair, I think I would have done this sooner if I had a school / off road hacking, but, as you pointed out above, and as my own logic tells me, I will be just as safe, if not safer on the roads, if the horse feels happy in his tack.

I do envy the lady who owns the matrix website's hacking... have you seen the videos of her free walking her horse through the hills? What a fabulous thing to do, but there are just so many cars around here.

I'm optimistically hoping I will be putting an update on here in 6 months time showing a chilled horse, with a healthy back and new saddle and a bitless bridle happily hacking out.

Roll on spring

 

[claribella]

You should come along and join her facebook page. Its calle bitlessandbarefoot-metalfree horses. Its full of really knowledgeable people and sounds like you would get along great there. We all have a great laugh and its great to get a longside people that really understand where you are trying to head. Suze who has the sight you looke at is brilliant. Ive ordered off her and she is brilliant. Really helpful and dead honest and she only selld products on her site that she uses on her horses.

I think once you overcome the idea that the bit doesnt actually control or do anything then you will relax and the more you ride out in a bitless the more confident you become. Check out fairhorsemanship on facebook too. There are some really simple articles about ridding bitless and some indebt stuff about how the bit works (or doesnt). Look forward to hearing how you get on

 

[metalmare]

I'm not on facebook I'm afraid, but I'll certainly keep an eye on her website and look at some of the links on there, too.

Maybe we need a special forum on Horse and Hound where people can discuss barefoot, bitless, living out and such like... after all there are a lot of people on here who are taking this route.

I think you're absolutely right in what you say... once I've done it a few times it won't seem strange any more.

 

[claribella]

Ah shame well defo take a look at fairhorsemanship.com.

Yeah I think its been tried before but not allowed although I could have just made that up lol!

Yes and the more you relax into it the more your pony will too. I do find that the groundwork helps a lot. We tend to go walking together at liberty which really builds trust. There was a point where my mare would get half way around our ride and then either turn on her heels to go home or just jog the whole way back whether we were riding or i was leading her. In the end I just got off, let her go completely when we were nearing home and she just walked calmly next to me the whole way back. It was almost like I trusted her enough to let her go with no restrains at all trusting (and hoping to god) that she would bomb it home and she repayed me by saying thank you and walking alongside me nose to shoulder. Since that day weve had absolutely no problems with her rushing to get home. She stays by me the whole way around if we walk together. She might have a nosey in a field but I just say 'come on then, time to go' and she comes right back to me. Like you I used to stand in awe of these people who would just go walking at liberty. I never thought Id be doing it myself but the more your horse trusts you on the ground and the more you trust your horse the deeper your relationship goes and that carries over into the ridden work then.

 

[daisydoo]

Woo I'm going to check out the matrix ladies website in more detail, I'm on a mission to find a first saddle for a youngster so might get some ideas off there!

I do find it hard to ask for and offer advice on here sometimes as there's a tendency to get ripped to shreds and be accused of being 'overhorsed' but no one knows it all and every horse and situation is different, I just try and offer advice on what has worked for me, but again its hard to know the exact situation and i try and stay diplomatic! That's why I prefer to pm!

Some people think I'm mad that I want to start my youngster bitless! Im not against using a bit, ie cross country when you may need something extra-I don't know I'll see how it goes for me. I am planning on regular riding lessons anyhow. Hacking I have found is so much more relaxing and beneficial than schooling in an arena, it's v simple to incorporate schooling into hacking, I like to practise leg yielding and transitions, rein back etc whilst out on a hack and so much more interesting for the horse! I hardly go in the school with my 20 month old, inhand walking around the fields is much better for her, she loves it and I can practise half halts etc at the same time. I used to do this loose at my old place around the farm and it was so lovely that she would follow me! Im next to quite busy roads to but have a nice farm ride we can do, I'm hoping to buy a trailer in a couple of years so can get to places like Epping!

 

[claribella]

Daisy are you on facebook? Check out the group I mentioned. There generally isnt any bitchiness on it. We discuss but dont get nasty about things

This group is good for an all rounded view on things because there are so many diff outlooks on how to keep horses.

 

[metalmare]

Yeah, I do think quality hacking makes a big difference to your confidence. Sadly there's not much space around here - you're soon back to cars and roads again.

Claribella: how do you do it? Are you able to walk in an area where there are no cars? My pony has such a strong herd instinct (he doesn't like leaving his herd, which is partly why he gets worried and also why as I've gained his trust things have improved a lot). Therefore I think he wouldn't leave my side if I let him loose, certainly I can lead him out on a loose halter on a lunge line. I'd just be terrified of traffic though.

 

[metalmare]

I am lucky as well because my trimmer is involved with various open minded people and always gives me gentle encouragement to try new things, like 'hop on bareback' or 'ride him in his headcollar' so she is very supportive.

I'm also aware though, as far as riding him off my leg and seat goes, that he can't be at his best until the McTimoney physio has been to him a few times and therefore I am giving him the benefit of the doubt a bit. He is very stiff down one side so if I'm asking him to move off my left leg he does find it tricky, although he's great off my right.

I do back him up and move him over quite often on the ground and he can be a bit of a lump, so I think it's something we can work on. Also, I think long lining might be a good starting point, on the side rings of his cavesson, perhaps on his halter, certainly on his bitless bridle once I've purchased one.

One further thought... looking at the matrix, you could easily attach two reins - one to the sidepull ring and one to the hackamore ring. This way it would almost be like a bitless pelham, I think - ridden on the sidepull with the hackamore on a loose rein, but with the option of the hackamore if it was needed. Just an idea... it doesn't mention this on the website and I haven't seen the bridle in action so I may be completely wide of the mark.

 

[daisydoo]

Yep I am on Facebook, will check it out. I'm also looking for an instructor who will support me in riding bitless and start me off long reining in the summer, just around the farm though, the nsl country lanes around here are horrendous!

 

[claribella]

You should have a chat to suze about the matrix. I dont have one myself because I know my girl works well in a rope halter but I also have a scawbrig for when I need her to respond a bit quicker. I prefer the rope with the bosal though.

I think you will know when you are ready. I just knew the time was right. We live on dartmoor so lots of open space but at the moment we are doing just the lanes. Whenever a car comes i might loosely hold her but she doesnt need it really. She stops when I stop and sometimes if she hears a car before me then she will stop first. Its a process though. Ive had her three years and things have happened slowly and gradually.

Which area are you daisy? I know a couple in the south west and also someone in the wales area.

 

[metalmare]

Yes, I think it will be years until I am really satisfied with the progress.

The aim is eventually to buy land and keep two ponies at home. That would be fantastic because I will be able to spend so much more time 'playing' in the field.

 

[daisydoo]

I'm all the way in south Essex. I'm looking to save to buy a couple of acres, unless I get a windfall or move its going to take a while, it's at least 15k per acre here!

 

[daisydoo]

I havent read it yet but was recommended a book called 'riding free' bitless, bareback, bridleless' by andrea and Markus eschbach, could be worth a read!

 

[metalmare]

I saw that book earlier on ebay... it does look good. I've put an update on here from earlier. I had a dabble