Bits AGAIN, sorry!!... your recomendations pls

[sharky]

For those of you who have read my beginners hunting reports I am having some issues with brakes on William my 13yr old 17.1 TB x Hann.

Up to this my ownership he's been a dressage horse and since i've had him he does everything including my recent excitement onto the hunting field.

I've had him a year and he arrived with a NS eggbut lozenge snaffle which he seemed to go ok in he can be heavy and a bit disobedient when schooled but he got there in the end.

(i am told i am very quiet rider inc my hands)

He was green jumping and we put him in a NS tranz universal to help with brakes jumping (he used to rush fences).
Out hacking he was always rather strong till he got to the front and then was an on the buckle plod.

- Hunting 1st time - tried it in the universal.. NOOOOOOO BRAKES!!!!
- Had a try of a waterford pelham... bad reaction to the waterford and not nice.
- Borrowed a straight bar pelham. Lovely and light in the school, great out hacking with lots more brakes but out hunting... Very little brakes.

BTW. he's more head up than nose down

I'm looking for ideas from you guys.
Cheltenham gag has been suggested and is on order
Myler combination also suggested - i know nothing about these but look "interesting"


pls help folks and if anyone has anything i can try pls let me know (he's 5.5 in)

 

[kirstykate]

Do you have a martingale on? Does he open his mouth/cross his jaw or is it shut already?

 

[sharky]

have a martingale, ridden in a flash as can be gobby

 

[arizonahoney]

Kineton noseband, plus the NS Snaffle he came in?
Also are you bridging your reins when he tanks you?

 

[kirstykate]

Ditto the bridge, have you tried a grackle? What about a Dutch Gag with 2 reins? Bloomin scary hunting with no brakes

 

[sharky]

Kineton noseband, plus the NS Snaffle he came in?
Also are you bridging your reins when he tanks you?

If i bridge he pulls harder as he locks against equal pressure. Alternate pulls on the reins gives a faster result.
I can always stop him but i don't like the fight and anyone smaller then me would have no chance. (i'm 6ft and 15 stone).

off to google a kineton noseband now

 

[chestnut cob]

At the risk of being shot down by the fluffies... how tightly do you do up your cavesson and flash? My big horse is ridden in a plain cavesson or a loose-ish drop (or a loose-ish grackle) under normal circumstances but out hunting he goes in a flash which is done up tightly. If I give him even an extra mm, he bogs off. Safety is paramount!

What reaction did you have to the waterford (you say it was "bad")? I hunt mine (17hh IDx) in a waterford gag on the middle or bottom ring, or a jointed pelham with 2 reins and a proper curb chain (not elastic or anything like that). Make sure your martingale fits correctly and isn't too loose.

If you had no brakes in the NS then I personally wouldn't bother with it again. I can take my new little horse hunting in a snaffle but that's because he's young, well mannered and hasn't learned to pull. The big one I could never take in a snaffle, I would die. Fact. Did you have two reins on your pelham when you tried that? I don't like pelhams with roundings, I get better results having two reins and then just use the bottom one when needed.

 

[sharky]

Cavesson is a crank and its quite tight
Flash is pretty tight too.
The pelham is used with rounding as i have enough to concentrate on out hunting and couldn't cope with double reins.

The waterford = head throwing, refusing to soften, refusing to forward and just very unpleasent to ride

i have throught about a grackle though so will order one of them too.

 

[sharky]

If i bridge he pulls harder as he locks against equal pressure. Alternate pulls on the reins gives a faster result.

reading my own statement there and a bit of research has shown that maybe i'm not being fair to him when i'm bridging. Will have to work on that one myself.

 

[kirstykate]

Just bury your knuckles just infront of his withers

 

[sharky]

Just bury your knuckles just infront of his withers

I've heard that... ohh poor William, No sod that poor me that has to deal with a rude horse

 

[kirstykate]

I've heard that... ohh poor William, No sod that poor me that has to deal with a rude horse

Exactly Its your arms he is pulling out!!

 

[Lizzie66]

Had a similar problem with daughters pony, after a fair bit of trial and error (some of which were down right dangerous) we settled on the Cheltenham Gag and he is generally. He's always going to be keen but can now stop when she wants to !

 

[Baggybreeches]

I hunt my big TB in an american gag and grackle noseband with a kineton added to save his mouth from himself! I also dislike the faff of having 2 reins out hunting, so a cheltenham gag would be great if he is controllable in it.

 

[laurapru]

The fist in the withers seems to work better than a bridge for me. Also I worried about using 2 reins on a straight bar pelham but it was actually easier than I thought and I just did the curb chain up half a turn and it had such a better result.
It is such a minefield so i do hope you find something that works. I know a lot of people swear by the cheltenham gag........

 

[spacefaer]

We've got strong horses - the 18hh ID that carries his head high (so that I can't see round his neck where I'm going) has a double bridle - a high ported weymouth with a loose ring french link bradoon (for when he's being good lol!) He also has a tight standing martingale

The 17.2hh is long (runs with his neck out like a TB, although he's IDxTB) and numb mouthed when hunting. He has a cherry roller cheltenham gag with a Kineton noseband - the bit stops him running, the noseband stops him pointing his nose. I don't hunt him - he's still too strong for me (5'8, 10 stone) he's my OHs


Kinetons are great as they're not restrictive and the horse can't fight them like a tight flash etc. We still put a cavesson on but it doesn't need to be tight.

 

[somethingillremember]

Speak to a bit bank as they will be able to offer a selection of bits for you to try . The Myler combination is good as it works on parts on the outside of your horses head before it works on the mouth . A bit bank will break down what you have tried and what the reaction was and should be able to figure out what works for your horse , poll pressure or curb etc etc . Worth a phone call or email.

 

[JenHunt]

We've got strong horses - the 18hh ID that carries his head high (so that I can't see round his neck where I'm going) has a double bridle - a high ported weymouth with a loose ring french link bradoon (for when he's being good lol!) He also has a tight standing martingale

Ron (16.2h IDx) is a chunky sort, and the only thing I've found to work is as Spacefaer says, a double bridle - we tried gags and pelhams, and waterfords, and each time we got his ears forced up our nostrils, we also tried a myler combination bit, and had to contend with his head between his knees once he worked out that was the way to evade that one!!

we have a low port weymouth and a loose ring eggbutt bradoon - and I sometimes (especially early season) still have to bridge reins and stuff my knuckles in his neck!! but once I get about 8 days into him he settles down and we hunt on the bradoon til Christmas, then drop back to our myler snaffle!

 

[Beany1800]

Hi
TB's can hav small mounths with big tongues so the more metal you put in their mouth, the worse of a reaction you can get.

I love the NS Universal but found this didn't have enough brakes for hunting.
if you have good hands you could go for an american gag - you only use as much as you need but I wouldn't use unless you deff have gentle hands.

I have found sucess with a Tom Thum bit. My horse totally respect this, it has a slight baucher action aswell as a gag action, is sweet iron so keeps a soft wet mouth. I love this bit and wouldn't use anything else out hunting. I still use my NS snaffle for schooling and hacking.

 

[sharky]

I think we have its sussed out finally (fingers crossed)
I have ended up with a nelson gag (full cheek Cheltenham) as it gave better steering and he seemed to like it.
And also a Mexican Grackle noseband.

He's always going to be forward out hunting but at least I have something at the beginning of the hunt while he is being "enthusiastic" and then I can be lighter when he calms down.

He's going back into an NS eggbutt lozenge snaffle for school work as have dressage in a couple of weeks... should be interesting during the canter work