Bits. Good or Bad?

TrasaM

TrasaM

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 May 2012
Messages
4,742
Location
Midlands
Visit site
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a-aV0Rsxmg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Doing some reading up about various bits and bit less options and found this on YouTube.

Hurting the horses mouth is something that has always worried me so I have tried to be careful with my hands. However watching this I'm wondering if it's actually possible not to hurt them no matter how softly I ride.

We have started to question shoeing horses so will the day also come when we start to question using bits in the same way.
 
For me there is no difference between bitless and bits both act on the horse head both are equally able to cause the horse discomfrot both depend on how skilled the rider is.
If riding skills not the equipment used that's the biggest thing that affects the horses comfort .
 
I think it's good that folks are questioning their horse's comfort; but with a bit that suits the horse's mouth conformation and sensitive hands there shouldn't be an issue, and I don't think bitting will become any less common. There is as much damage that can be caused to a sensitive nose by those awful knotted halters. I see that the video is from a Dr. Cook's promoter, having tried one which my horse hated I found that there was just far too much pressure on her head that didn't release quickly enough for her liking.
 
Last edited:
I've recently gone bitless (a sidepull) and the difference in my horse is unbelievable! My horse would constantly fight to open his mouth, shake his head and tilt his neck. I didn't even hold the reins and he still did it. I changed bits, had his teeth done, used and took off a flash, adjusted the bridle etc but nothing helped. Now he's bitless he is so relaxed and brakes/control is great because he's not distracted by something in his mouth.
I thoroughly suggest everyone tries bitless, even if they don't have major issues with their horse, I think they'd see an improvement in their horse's way of going.
 
umbo said:
I've recently gone bitless (a sidepull) and the difference in my horse is unbelievable! My horse would constantly fight to open his mouth, shake his head and tilt his neck. I didn't even hold the reins and he still did it. I changed bits, had his teeth done, used and took off a flash, adjusted the bridle etc but nothing helped. Now he's bitless he is so relaxed and brakes/control is great because he's not distracted by something in his mouth.
I thoroughly suggest everyone tries bitless, even if they don't have major issues with their horse, I think they'd see an improvement in their horse's way of going.
Click to expand...

:) this is why I was doing some research. I was looking at the Miklem bridle videos and spotted this one. I'm also not convinced that bits are as harmless as we like to believe.
 
umbo said:
I've recently gone bitless (a sidepull) and the difference in my horse is unbelievable! My horse would constantly fight to open his mouth, shake his head and tilt his neck. I didn't even hold the reins and he still did it. I changed bits, had his teeth done, used and took off a flash, adjusted the bridle etc but nothing helped. Now he's bitless he is so relaxed and brakes/control is great because he's not distracted by something in his mouth.
I thoroughly suggest everyone tries bitless, even if they don't have major issues with their horse, I think they'd see an improvement in their horse's way of going.
Click to expand...

This is the case for the vast majority, inc my own horses. Sadly though until you can compete bitless it's not a full time option for me. I find that riding bitless can help me address issues that I'm struggling with bitted - straightness and inverting in the canter transitions for example - and actually make him better when the bit is back in. I have a Micklem bridle so I have bitted and bitless options in one bridle. Works a treat!

I always lunge bitless too, and would start young horses that way too. It's an under used skill IMO.
 
There's plenty of horses who aren't happy in a bit, from those that just won't take a good contact to the head shakers. Sometimes it only needs something as simple as a bit change. Others would be be happier without a bit altogether.

All my horses are broken with a headcollar and reins. They only get a bit when they respond fully to the headcollar. There is utterly no difference in the way they ride between the two. They often just ride in a headcollar still but they obviously need to wear a bit for competitions.

If I have a horse who's not happy in a bit (strong, unresponsive, headshaking etc) I school them bitless for a while then re introduced a bit that they're happy with. Wearing a bit happily is a lifeskill I think all horses should have.
 
My argument would be that horses aren't designed to have a bit in their mouths. While I see horses working beautifully with a bit.. They can't be comfortable?!
I also know bitless has it's problems too but if someone does their research and understands how they work, I'm 99% sure they'd be thrilled with the outcome! I certainly was and so was my horse!
I'm not a competitive rider so the competing side of things doesn't affect me but i have seen that my local team chase organiser is allowing bitless bridles from now on!
Also - people argue that they won't have control in a bitless bridle. Well, you won't have any less control than bitted. In fact, horses run from pain so if you're tugging on the mouth of a bolting horse the chances of you stopping are very slim!
Hire a bitless bridle if you can, you won't be disappointed!
 
umbo said:
My argument would be that horses aren't designed to have a bit in their mouths. While I see horses working beautifully with a bit.. They can't be comfortable?!
I also know bitless has it's problems too but if someone does their research and understands how they work, I'm 99% sure they'd be thrilled with the outcome! I certainly was and so was my horse!
I'm not a competitive rider so the competing side of things doesn't affect me but i have seen that my local team chase organiser is allowing bitless bridles from now on!
Also - people argue that they won't have control in a bitless bridle. Well, you won't have any less control than bitted. In fact, horses run from pain so if you're tugging on the mouth of a bolting horse the chances of you stopping are very slim!
Hire a bitless bridle if you can, you won't be disappointed!
Click to expand...

Horses aren't actually designed to be ridden full stop!

You say "While I see horses working beautifully with a bit.. they can't be comfortable". You then say "Horses run from pain". If a horse isn't comfortable, why would he work well"

I have ridden mine bitless, and have no negative things to say about bitless bridles. I do however take great exception to the inference that bitless is the only way to ride a horse and not cause it pain/discomfort. It's really offensive to people who are wholly committed to the welfare of their horses, riding softly and beautifully - with a bit in their mouths.
 
Goldenstar said:
Define what harm you think bits are doing please.
Click to expand...

My doubts began after I started riding a horse who would not settle on his bit. Head tossing, neck stiffening, rushing and pulling against the bit instead of stopping.
As already stated, I have doubts :confused:: the majority of the horses I ride do ok on their bits but I'm open to trying the alternative.
Having ridden a few horses who will simply lock their neck out and refuse to stop when asked I'm not convinced that the bit IS the effective part of the equation.
As with the video I've linked to my concern would be bruising to the palate and bars resulting in a tense horse.
 
Auslander said:
Horses aren't actually designed to be ridden full stop!

You say "While I see horses working beautifully with a bit.. they can't be comfortable". You then say "Horses run from pain". If a horse isn't comfortable, why would he work well"

I have ridden mine bitless, and have no negative things to say about bitless bridles. I do however take great exception to the inference that bitless is the only way to ride a horse and not cause it pain/discomfort. It's really offensive to people who are wholly committed to the welfare of their horses, riding softly and beautifully - with a bit in their mouths.
Click to expand...

Agree with this.

The nose is also a sensitive part of the horse. I have a little horse who will not tolerate any sort of pressure on her nose. Anything more than a loose cavesson or leather headcollar and she is tipping and shaking her head in annoyance. Put her in a bit that she likes and she's fine. She may be an exception, but for her any bridle that presses on the front of her face is a complete no-no. (we know her full history since the day she was foaled and she hasn't ever been mistreated).
 
umbo said:
My argument would be that horses aren't designed to have a bit in their mouths. While I see horses working beautifully with a bit.. They can't be comfortable?!
I also know bitless has it's problems too but if someone does their research and understands how they work, I'm 99% sure they'd be thrilled with the outcome! I certainly was and so was my horse!
I'm not a competitive rider so the competing side of things doesn't affect me but i have seen that my local team chase organiser is allowing bitless bridles from now on!
Also - people argue that they won't have control in a bitless bridle. Well, you won't have any less control than bitted. In fact, horses run from pain so if you're tugging on the mouth of a bolting horse the chances of you stopping are very slim!
Hire a bitless bridle if you can, you won't be disappointed!
Click to expand...

Well they are not designed to have a contraption to control them round the nose either or saddles on theirbacks or boots on their legs or to ridden full stop .
How is a bit less comfortable then a bitless bridle they are both equally likely to be uncomfortable.
It's the rider that counts the most .
 
umbo said:
My argument would be that horses aren't designed to have a bit in their mouths. While I see horses working beautifully with a bit.. They can't be comfortable?!
I also know bitless has it's problems too but if someone does their research and understands how they work, I'm 99% sure they'd be thrilled with the outcome! I certainly was and so was my horse!
I'm not a competitive rider so the competing side of things doesn't affect me but i have seen that my local team chase organiser is allowing bitless bridles from now on!
Also - people argue that they won't have control in a bitless bridle. Well, you won't have any less control than bitted. In fact, horses run from pain so if you're tugging on the mouth of a bolting horse the chances of you stopping are very slim!
Hire a bitless bridle if you can, you won't be disappointed!
Click to expand...


Horses aren't designed to have headcollars or bitless bridles on either! ;)

Not all horses are happy bitless either, mine being one of them and I know of several others. Bitless isn't the be all and end all for horses, and there are some pretty severe hackamores out there. I think it is sensible to use whatever your horse is comfortable with, but there are so many different types of bit available that usually it can be possible to find one that a horse will take to. Focusing on sensitive hands, whether bitted or bitless is the important thing.
 
Well you might as well call this "Re: Hands; Good or Bad?" because it's the hands on the end of the reins that cause whatever is happening on the other end, be that in the mouth or on the face. I'm afraid if the bit is causing discomfort or the horse isn't responding the way you want it to then it is a training and riding problem. Bitless is a cop out.
 
TrasaM said:
My doubts began after I started riding a horse who would not settle on his bit. Head tossing, neck stiffening, rushing and pulling against the bit instead of stopping.
As already stated, I have doubts :confused:: the majority of the horses I ride do ok on their bits but I'm open to trying the alternative.
Having ridden a few horses who will simply lock their neck out and refuse to stop when asked I'm not convinced that the bit IS the effective part of the equation.
As with the video I've linked to my concern would be bruising to the palate and bars resulting in a tense horse.
Click to expand...

But that horse clearly has either pain or had a training issue well trained horses don't go like that.
I don't deny that bits can cause damage as can all devices that put pressure on the horse anywhere I saw some terrible damage to noses on SJ'ers when i was working.
There is no difference to the horse neither the nose or the mouth of the horses is designed for these things.
 
Cortez said:
Well you might as well call this "Re: Hands; Good or Bad?" because it's the hands on the end of the reins that cause whatever is happening on the other end, be that in the mouth or on the face. I'm afraid if the bit is causing discomfort or the horse isn't responding the way you want it to then it is a training and riding problem. Bitless is a cop out.
Click to expand...

That's not quite true. There are horses who just don't like things in their mouth or find a bit uncomfortable by it's sheer presence, nothing to do with any pressure from the rein. Most horses who aren't happy in their bit is because it's the wrong bit or the hands attached aren't kind, but some horses just dislike something in their mouth. Maybe more than you think, as horses are so stoic. It's like saddles: how do you KNOW your saddle fits? And how many horses do you know where the fit isn't great bit they just soldier on anyways, uncomplaining.
 
Kallibear said:
That's not quite true. There are horses who just don't like things in their mouth or find a bit uncomfortable by it's sheer presence, nothing to do with any pressure from the rein. Most horses who aren't happy in their bit is because it's the wrong bit or the hands attached aren't kind, but some horses just dislike something in their mouth. Maybe more than you think, as horses are so stoic. It's like saddles: how do you KNOW your saddle fits? And how many horses do you know where the fit isn't great bit they just soldier on anyways, uncomplaining.
Click to expand...

I know my saddles fit because I am well trained.
 
It's the hands & the rider, not the bit. A hackamore doesn't go in the mouth, but given the choice between a heavy handed fool using a hackamore or a snaffle, ime the snaffle is far less cruel.
And if bitless was always better, how come high level dressage horses wear doubles, rather than a plain snaffle to compete in? It's because it allows fine communication, not because the rider cba getting the horse going well. Whilst I'm sure some horses go better bitless imo that's the same as different horses prefering different mouthpieces. And I have yet to meet a horse with a problem with bits where a human hasn't been responsible for it.
 
No, you THINK your saddle fits because it looks ok and the horse doesn't complain. Unless you have taught your horse to speak, you can only judge how comfortable he is by assessing his behaviour. Being GOOD at assessing his behavior is where your training comes is. Assuming you've been trained correctly ;)

However if you were to try a different saddle on him and his behaviour/performance improved (even if it seems perfectly good before) then you'd have to conclude that maybe his previous saddle wasn't as great as you though.

Bitless or bitted/a different bit is no different. You won't know until you've experimented.

Im not anti bit and ride all mine in a bit. But to say all horses are very happy to have a piece of metal in their mouth, and if they're not it's the riders fault, is silly
 
TrasaM said:
He'd been used to teach beginners and is a very sensitive anxious horse anyhow.
Click to expand...

I think you have just indicated what the problem is with that particular horse. Sensitive, anxious horses and beginners aren't a good combo. Even if he behaves himself, the inevitable balance problems/lack of finesse/etc are going to bother a horse who isn't a steady phlegmatic sort.
 
Kallibear said:
No, you THINK your saddle fits because it looks ok and the horse doesn't complain. Unless you have taught your horse to speak, you can only judge how comfortable he is by assessing his behaviour. Being GOOD at assessing his behavior is where your training comes is. Assuming you've been trained correctly ;)

However if you were to try a different saddle on him and his behaviour/performance improved (even if it seems perfectly good before) then you'd have to conclude that maybe his previous saddle wasn't as great as you though.

Bitless or bitted/a different bit is no different. You won't know until you've experimented.

Im not anti bit and ride all mine in a bit. But to say all horses are very happy to have a piece of metal in their mouth, and if they're not it's the riders fault, is silly
Click to expand...

No Kallibear i don't judge my horses saddle fit by his behaviour no horse here would ever be at the stage where the saddle was causing discomfort to the horse and there fore showing behavioural problems.
I am have been trained by my saddler to understand exactly what I am looking for from a saddle I can feel the balance of a saddle changing as a horse develops I know from experiance as little as a 5mm change can clearly be felt from on top I think nothing of the saddler visiting often sometimes fortnightly when a horse is going through a period of radical change .
My vet and physio have taught me how to assess horses backs that's what I mean when I say I am well trained .
I don't need to randomly try other saddles to see if they are better if the horse changes shape I know because I assess them all the time.
I did not say it was the riders fault if the horse does not accept the bit but it's definatly a training issue somewhere along the line unless the horse has a conformation or medical issue.
The most important thing for a horse is the riders skill if you are a unskilled rider you will be unskilled whatever you use.
 
Kallibear said:
No, you THINK your saddle fits because it looks ok and the horse doesn't complain. Unless you have taught your horse to speak, you can only judge how comfortable he is by assessing his behaviour. Being GOOD at assessing his behavior is where your training comes is. Assuming you've been trained correctly ;)

However if you were to try a different saddle on him and his behaviour/performance improved (even if it seems perfectly good before) then you'd have to conclude that maybe his previous saddle wasn't as great as you though.

Bitless or bitted/a different bit is no different. You won't know until you've experimented.

Im not anti bit and ride all mine in a bit. But to say all horses are very happy to have a piece of metal in their mouth, and if they're not it's the riders fault, is silly
Click to expand...
I would go so far as to say that NO horse is happy to have a piece of metal in their mouths, but then they probably arn't overjoyed to have a big lump of a human stuck on their backs either, but that's the deal, I'm afraid. And having their nose squeezed in a variety of ways by bitless contraptions is no better, and frequently less precise and clear in their intentions than a properly fitted and used bit. It's all about the training and riding (oh, and sometimes I have to train horses to go without ANYTHING on their heads at all; still all about the training).
 
TrasaM said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a-aV0Rsxmg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Doing some reading up about various bits and bit less options and found this on YouTube.

Hurting the horses mouth is something that has always worried me so I have tried to be careful with my hands. However watching this I'm wondering if it's actually possible not to hurt them no matter how softly I ride.

We have started to question shoeing horses so will the day also come when we start to question using bits in the same way.
Click to expand...

I have a feeling that being on HHO has made me somewhat suspicious and cynical, and I have a few issues with this youtube video.


I noticed that it says
With a lot of thanks to Dr. Cook for his years of research on bits
Click to expand...
in the info text to the youtube video. Yet, all that I can recall them saying in the video, is things that I thought had been basically known for ages.
Their wording and interpretation of cause and effect might be a little different than in my horse books, but still, nothing really new so far, and after reading "years of research", I had expected to hear something new.

For example in a Swedish book, second edition from 1911 - 1913 re-printed 1988, Handbok för hästvänner del I och II (Handbook for horsefriends part I and II) by C.G. Wrangel, he talks negatively about how double broken bits can squeeze painfully around the lower jaw.
C.G. Wrangel also talks about how different horses can have smaller or bigger tongues and how that affects how the bit works, can change its effect or stop it from working the way intended etc.


This video was "The effects of the bit part 1", and I have no idea how many more parts there will be, but I can't help that it gave me the impression, that it will somehow end in the message that all ridden/driven horses needs to have a Dr. Cook's bitless bridle to be happy.


As far as I can understand from having read on Dr. Cooks Bitless bridle website, his bridle works through applying pressure on the poll and nose, and I'm sure that in the wrong hands, handled the wrong way, that could also be painful for a horse.


To be completely honest, I also don't like the use of gooey music in youtube videos like this, especially not when it is so loud that I can't ignore it.


Maybe I sound like a miserable, old witch,


so I will end with saying that I like the fact that there is several options to choose between for those who wants to try a bitless bridle.

:)
 
touchstone said:
I think it's good that folks are questioning their horse's comfort; but with a bit that suits the horse's mouth conformation and sensitive hands there shouldn't be an issue, and I don't think bitting will become any less common. There is as much damage that can be caused to a sensitive nose by those awful knotted halters. I see that the video is from a Dr. Cook's promoter, having tried one which my horse hated I found that there was just far too much pressure on her head that didn't release quickly enough for her liking.
Click to expand...


Agree^^^.

Questioning what tack you use is always a good thing, but after the researching is done, always go back to your horse and ask him. By watching and observing, the horse will tell you if there's a problem.
(I hate those knotted string halters too.)

One of mine dislikes wearing a noseband of any description, he is much happier without one, so for him, a bitless bridle would be his idea of hell. Horses are all different except for loving a well balanced rider with soft hands.
 
FinnishLapphund said:
I have a feeling that being on HHO has made me somewhat suspicious and cynical, and I have a few issues


This video was "The effects of the bit part 1", and I have no idea how many more parts there will be, but I can't help that it gave me the impression, that it will somehow end in the message that all ridden/driven horses needs to have a Dr. Cook's bitless bridle to be happy.


As far as I can understand from having read on Dr. Cooks Bitless bridle website, his bridle works through applying pressure on the poll and nose, and I'm sure that in the wrong hands, handled the wrong way, that could also be


Maybe I sound like a miserable, old witch,


so I will end with saying that I like the fact that there is several options to choose between for those who wants to try a bitless bridle.

:)
Click to expand...

Not a miserable old with at all I'm sure :)
Yes I know the video is linked to a product but there is lots of other research along the same lines expressing the same concern.
 
It is good that people are watching this video and hopefully taking on board the points made, but anybody who rides a horse should know how bits work and make sure to improve their riding to the level where the negative effects don't happen. Good riding means not hauling on the horse's mouth, it means knowing how to fit a bit that suits the individual conformation of that horse's jaw, and it means training the horse to respond as kindly as possible. I feel that people who don't ride well will also not ride well in a bitless bridle, and they can be just as disturbing in their effect.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top