Bitting for a strong but sensitive mare

Topaz Tiger

Topaz Tiger

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Hi guys, I know this subject has been done before, but would welcome your thoughts as topaz is a bit complicated.
I event her, she is well schooled on the flat and works in a duo straight bar d ring, however jumping is another matter.
She is very strong and can run us into trouble, however many of the strong bits she will throw up her head and
refuse.
Have tried Mullen Pelham, got elimated with chain on, no
control with leather strap, cheltenham gag, hated and split
her mouth, cartwheel nathe, no control, waterford fulmer,
nothing, 3 ring nathe gag, no go.
Basically she likes a unjointed, fixed ring in her mouth, pref
something other than metal, but not too thick and is not keen on too much gag action.
She is an opinionated mare, who likes to be a bit in charge, but when we get it right she is a flying machine.... :)
I used to event her in a vulcanite butterfly flip, that she went
well in, but since her break from eventing I can no longer
hold her in it.
Currently I showjump her in a short shank combination
nathe, which is likes, but she is still strong and can make her
nose and chin sore, thinking about trying the long shank,
plus sheepsin etc and i xc her (only once so far) in an
American nathe gag with d's (2 reins out of the question)
went well, just sat up to check and opened hand to turn, but
def too much if needed to check her strongly.
So what do you all think? Please don't tell me it is a
schooling issue, I am taught by a 4* rider, well known for her
bravery xc and even she says she's very strong but it's just
because she's keen, she is also at a loss what to suggest
next.
Any thoughts gratefully received.... ;)
 
really difficult to say... the only thing that anchored my very strong mare was a hanoverian pelham with a revolving copper wheel in the port, it's a beast of a bit but i hardly have to touch it, better than hauling on something she has no respect for. she ripped her mouth in most other bits, no matter how careful i tried to be. however, the first time i used it she jibbed and nearly couldn't cope, took some tact to convince her that i wasn't going to use it, you know?
have you tried going totally the other way, something mild that she won't get hysterical about? i realise this needs practising somewhere safe though! some hard pullers don't pull if the bit is mild and the rider doesn't pull, but obv you need a lot of trust and faith if you're going to do that...
i'd also try a happy mouth pelham or gag (depending on what she does with her neck and head when she's strong) if she likes that sort of mouthpiece.
also, not wanting to sound reckless but does she need bigger fences to back her off? sometimes if they're finding the fences small they get silly and chancy, bigger ones make your job easier... not that that's an excuse, it's great to have control to the fences however small obv, but it's another thing to think about.
 
Hi kerilli, sadly as she likes to think she is in control, a strong bit just seems to upset her and then she downs tools, throwing up her head when I try to check or turn her. She too has ripped her mouth on a lot of bits. Hence the reason I am trying strong nathe bits now.
Started sj her in a happy mouth fulmer with a combination or high grakle, but it just got a bit wild and flat.
The nathe American gag does work, but I know it is a very strong bit, but as you say I don't need to pull just stay soft and sit up to check.
You are absolutely right about the bigger fences, we are trying to get her up the grades as quickly as the ground will allow and I can cope with. The bigger fences def make her think a bit more, schooled her round the novice fences at ely, after she had jumped them a couple of times, she stopped respecting them as well.... ;))
Will look up Hanoverian Pelham
not heard of one and will pray for rain, hoping a few runs will settle her down a bit. :)
 
yes, i know exactly the sort. umm, i'd experiment with different nosebands, maybe a controller noseband with a race noseband (some horses back off the slight pressure of something down the front of their face) and/or a controller + roller noseband (fat sheepskin-covered cavesson to get her to have to lower her head to see the fences) with a softer mouthpiece that she'll accept.
 
Hi only hackamore type thing I have tried her in was a nathe combination bit that I currently sj her in, she is still quick strong in that, so am considering trying one with longer shanks and sheepskin on the noseband as she can make her nose and chin sore pulling, as the pressure there doesn't seem to bother her.... Hence the longer shanks idea....
 
Hi yes friend suggested a Myler combination bit, was thinking about trying one next, pos wrapped in latex, only thing that put me off a little, was told they're either on or off, so no steady contact to work into and she does like to take me into a fence....
 
my mare's similar, and only accepts a rubber pelham with an elastic curb. She's still strong, but a lot more rideable! Mine has decent sized shanks on it too! The only other thing that may be worth a try is a duo pelham, as it has a thinner rubber mouthpiece. My mare also likes myler bits (especially the mullen ported mouthpiece) wrapped in latex...if she is good in combo bits, may also be worth trying a german hackamore with a rubber snaffle and 2reins?
 
Hi katb thanks for thoughts on this, had looked at duo Pelhams before and was unsure if would have enough leverage, but just looked again because of you comment and bit bank show them as having brought out a duo butterfly flip bit which would def be worth a try for sj, got a
vulcanite one at the moment, but bit thick for her mouth and nathe to flexible, so very pleased to find this :). Will def look at trying a Myler combo as seems popular choice. Hackamore and snaffle equalling 2 pairs of reins might be a bit scary xc not sure if will be able to keep my knitting sorted out!
Thanks for all your thoughts everyone, def given me some new options to try.
 
I know you say she doesn't like metal, but might she like sweet-iron?. If so, bomber bits have a sweet-iron butterfly flip bit with a lovely ported bar mouthpiece, that I think they call a happy tongue. It can be used with a strap or chain curb. I am just starting to try one for a very strong eventer ,for the sj phase, so far with promising results!.
 
Topaz Tiger said:
Hi everyone, thanks for all your thoughts, found a couple of interesting bits to try now, with various mosebands i already have, although the nathe curb
gag does look quite fierce! Ca n see an eBay sale coming up at the end of all this!
http://www.bitworld.co.uk/ourshop/prod_1380126-Nathe-Curb-Gag.html
http://hphotos-snc6.fbcdn.net/173048_10150103494608080_150817878079_6180089_4223661_o.jpg
Click to expand...
interesting... but HOW much?! gosh, especially for something a horse can chomp on and damage past useability, different for a metal bit.
 
Have you looked at Mikmar bits? They look horrendous but I have heard that they can be brilliant with strong but sensitive Horses. Having seen them in the flesh the mouthpiece is actually very light. They come in all sorts of styles including combination.
 
suzysparkle said:
Have you looked at Mikmar bits? They look horrendous but I have heard that they can be brilliant with strong but sensitive Horses. Having seen them in the flesh the mouthpiece is actually very light. They come in all sorts of styles including combination.
Click to expand...

I have looked at these, but never seen any in the flesh or know anyone who has used them, so am a bit scared of them to be honest. :eek: thanks, will have another look and try to speak to a retailer about them, ESP if they do a combination type one.
 
quizzie said:
Your second one looks very like the one I was talking about, with a sweet-iron mouthpiece (longer lasting...as Kerilli says!!!).You might fund the port helps too.

www.worldwidetack.com/colin-miles-kimblewick-p407.html

Sorry, that was meant to take you to bit itself, but I am useless at this!!. blick on bits...bomber bits...find it under kimblewicks!
Click to expand...

Hi, thanks for the link, did look them up earlier, but didn't find this site, much better photos than I found....:D
Does look interesting, dentist suggested a ported mouthpiece, but she wasn't keen, so kinda discounted them after this, but as this is sweet iron and think it looks curved as well is worth a try, and will be a positive bargain compared to nathe/duo! Although I am lucky as she doesn't chew them. Had a bit sale
through eBay a while ago and business sellers were paying about 80% of new
retail price for my nathe bits, do didn't lose too much in the end.... :o
 
Hi kerilli, I know the prices are eye watering, but she doesn't chew them thankfully.....

Hi Irish_only, I have looked at the kineton, but it only seemed to be used with snaffle type bits, and I'm not sure I could hold her in that, she makes her nose and chin sore in the combination rather than listen to me.... Trouble is she thinks she knows it all, and so far has had the scope to sort it if we're wrong, so thinks she is just "too kool for skool", she's irish by the way... ;)
 
Topaz Tiger said:
I have looked at these, but never seen any in the flesh or know anyone who has used them, so am a bit scared of them to be honest. :eek: thanks, will have another look and try to speak to a retailer about them, ESP if they do a combination type one.
Click to expand...

Having seen them, I wouldn't hesitate to try one if I was having your issues. If you have a Horse that hates jointed bits you don't have much in the way of options. Myler bits are funny - some love them, some are no different and some hate them. Funnily I have come across all three!! They are very thin in all dimensions.

Mikmar bits are wide and flat so they take up less room for the Horse in terms of thickness but more room in terms of distributing pressure. I used to work for a showjumper who has trained under someone (very big name) whose Horse was transformed by one of these bits - hence me suggesting one. Might be worth emailing Mikmar directly as they aren't that popular here. That said, you can trial them here
http://www.horsebitbank.com/mikmar-combination-bit-low-port-415.phtml
 
Hi , I'd give a Myler bit a go , there are several bit banks that do Myler and at least you can try before you buy so you have lost nothing and can try it for a couple of weeks and get your money back if it doesnt suit.
 
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