Bitting thoughts

[Caol Ila]

I’ve been riding Foinavon in a Myler combination bit for the last seven months. I like the way he feels in it. It’s a soft, responsive, live connection. I don’t like the fact that it feels like a ton of iron mongery and rigging, and I’ve recently had to fashion a strap to keep the noseband from falling too low on his nose.

I tried him in a loose ring double jointed snaffle, and he hated it. Lots of head throwing. Tried him in a D ring Myler and he hated it less, but the connection didn’t feel right. He was heavy and not as responsive as he is in the combination bit. Tried him in a side pull and felt like I had no connection whatsoever to the front end.

Does he like the leverage aspect of the bit, or the noseband, or all of the above? I can keep using it forever, but it would be nice to have something with a bit less rigging. I’ve messaged a bit fit lady but still waiting to hear back. In the meantime, I’m interested in ideas from you fine people.

 

[LEC]

You haven’t mentioned his mouth conformation, tongue, what you want him to go like, what he currently goes like, training level, what you are aiming to do…. So all in all quite hard to give an answer.

personally I hate this kind of question on internet now unless more specific as I think the bitting experts are so good and you can save so much time, effort and money by getting one in. Just choose one who doesn’t just do dressage legal if you want more brakes. I rate the Lantra qualified ones.

 

[I'm Dun]

I had a bit fitting consultation and it was worth every penny. I was really surprised by the bit the pony chose as well.Not something I would have considered and actually the cheapest bit they do!

 

[RachelFerd]

I’ve been riding Foinavon in a Myler combination bit for the last seven months. I like the way he feels in it. It’s a soft, responsive, live connection. I don’t like the fact that it feels like a ton of iron mongery and rigging, and I’ve recently had to fashion a strap to keep the noseband from falling too low on his nose.

I tried him in a loose ring double jointed snaffle, and he hated it. Lots of head throwing. Tried him in a D ring Myler and he hated it less, but the connection didn’t feel right. He was heavy and not as responsive as he is in the combination bit. Tried him in a side pull and felt like I had no connection whatsoever to the front end.

Does he like the leverage aspect of the bit, or the noseband, or all of the above? I can keep using it forever, but it would be nice to have something with a bit less rigging. I’ve messaged a bit fit lady but still waiting to hear back. In the meantime, I’m interested in ideas from you fine people.

The Myler combination bit seems to be a real marmite of the bit world - some people adore it and say it is kind. Other people I've spoken to like it as a bit, but would say that it is of Western heritage - ie. designed to be pressure and RELEASE not pressure and maintain contact - so the feel that you get in the myler combination might never be the feel that you get in a dressage legal bit, because you are getting the feel of softening and letting go of the contact, rather than having a contact.

Then again, I put the myler combination on my big leany horse and it leaned into light an absolute monster - which is definitely NOT what is meant to happen!!

 

[tristar]

a bit simplistic, but i find most horses go well in a fulmer snaffle of varying degrees of thickness, but usually a medium mouthpiece

as regards taking a contact

 

[Caol Ila]

You haven’t mentioned his mouth conformation, tongue, what you want him to go like, what he currently goes like, training level, what you are aiming to do…. So all in all quite hard to give an answer.

personally I hate this kind of question on internet now unless more specific as I think the bitting experts are so good and you can save so much time, effort and money by getting one in. Just choose one who doesn’t just do dressage legal if you want more brakes. I rate the Lantra qualified ones.

Sorry, I assumed that anyone responding has followed his story and remembers more than they actually have, lol.

He's an unregistered Highland, circa 11 years old. To recap, he was feral until he was 7/8 years old. He was captured, gentled, and backed and ridden away in a rope halter and/or dually. He then did nothing for almost two years, due to his trainer having an accident (not on him) and his owner being too busy and overcommitted to deal. He was sent away to a pro yard for restarting, effectively, and they bitted him up but seemingly made a hash out of it. I first viewed the horse when he'd been back from pro yard for about two weeks. He would open his mouth and throw his head if you took contact on a snaffle, and steering was minimal, at best. Next visit, we tried a boucher cheek Myler, and he was a little better but still threw his head. Perfect, I said, and bought him anyway in July. Contacted bit fitter then, but she could not come until September, and as the horse did not really go in the arena at the time (the pro yard did an excellent job of introducing him to that too ), there wasn't much point anyway.

I did some research and took a punt on the Myler combination (and yes, I'm not an idiot; the vet has looked at his mouth and there is nothing untoward). Voila! Different horse. I had brakes, decent steering, and no head tossing/gaping when I touched the reins. I'm aware that it can be very strong if you were heavy handed, so I ride on a feather-light contact and that works. Like Rachel said, it's more like a Western bit, so it may never lend itself to a stronger, direct dressagey contact, which is why it would be nice to change him to something else. On the other hand, I don't know if BD is in this horse's future. I bought him to be a trail horse and to cover some serious distance, and he is very good at that. He accepts the school now, and we are just starting our schooling journey, but obviously you don't need to ride "dressage" to do that. You can ride more like a western rider. So BD legal isn't my first priority, but it sure would be nice to have something a bit less faffy.

A bit fitter would be ideal, but if the bit fitters around here are as busy and overstretched as some of the saddle fitters, I'll have the horse at Grand Prix before one can get out to see him.

 

[ihatework]

My take on it - you have and older horse, with huge gaps in education and not of the type to find dressage work easy anyway.

What are your priorities?
If educating to do some dressage then yes you will need to educate the horse to a dressage legal bit. Not an easy task with your starting point so I’d enlist a bit specialist and see where that takes you.

Or you say - I’ve got what I bought, let’s both enjoy this with a focus on our trail riding and let’s just use what he likes. If that’s the myler fine. Or what about an English hackamore?

 

[milliepops]

As above, you probably have to decide on your priorities. if it's being able to ride on a soft rein without a proper contact and just do your thing - stick with what you've got. Personally i think horses go softly in these because of the multiple pressure points which make it harder for them to express anything other than compliance. but if you are aware of that then there's essentially no driver to change.

If you wish to fill in the gaps in his education and teach him to go in a BD legal bit, i start everything in a lozenge and find that works well for most. My go-to is a middle thickness KK ultra but for a horse with a basically normal mouth it doesn't really matter where you start IME, what is in the horse's brain is more important than what is in its mouth. I generally only start being tempted to fiddle with the details when they have a good basic understanding of the contact and are able to respond more-or-less correctly.

Bit fitters are great and the benefit of being able to ride in lots of different bits in one session is huge. but the horse still has to learn what the bit means so i don't believe you can't achieve a lot without using one.

 

[Caol Ila]

The ported ones of any sort do seem to help. Maybe he dislikes tongue pressure? He makes a rod for his own back in the 'normal' snaffle by jerking his head the opposite way from whichever way you're moving the rein (however softly), thus yanking himself in the mouth, and then fighting that because it's uncomfortable. Doesn't matter how fast you give the rein when he shows vague compliance.

 

[Zuzan]

Double joints can put a lot of pressure on the bars.

Natives often have large tongues and low upper palates so not a lot of room for bits.

My personal preference is a single jointed fulmer... without the keepers. Simple effective and essentially the strength of a bit is really about the hand and not the bit itself.

Also to add the direction of contact is very very important.. any pressure should be on the corners of the mouth (not back) This means a single joint will flex in parallel with the tongue and upper palate.

Oh and I'm a no noseband at all person.

 

[Zuzan]

The ported ones of any sort do seem to help. Maybe he dislikes tongue pressure? He makes a rod for his own back in the 'normal' snaffle by jerking his head the opposite way from whichever way you're moving the rein (however softly), thus yanking himself in the mouth, and then fighting that because it's uncomfortable. Doesn't matter how fast you give the rein when he shows vague compliance.

Sounds like he hasn't learnt to accept any contact at all. I would try working from the ground in halt .. doing flexions to start with.

 

[LEC]

So my big grey has been a changed horse since moving to this
https://saddlemasters.co.uk/mb33-myler-ported-barrel-loose-ring-9405-p.asp

It’s dr legal as well - I have a much better contact without her sitting on my hands and dragging herself along on her forehand. It wouldn’t have been something I would have gone through but my trainer got me trying it. The loose ring means she isn’t able to just sit on it like an eggbutt. She is a massive horse but has a 5 inch mouth, thick lips and large tongue.

 

[Hepsibah]

I was the person who originally suggested the combination bit to you. I'm really glad it worked for you My thought for a bit to try given how he responds to other types of bit would be a Myler low port eggbutt snaffle with hooks. If the cheek of the bridle is attached to the hook it will hold the mouthpiece off the bars and still the same way the combination bit does and you can attach the rein to the ring or the lower hook depending on which he responds best to.

 

[Hepsibah]

https://www.shawsequestrian.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Hooks-on-Myler-Snaffle-Cheeks.pdf
There's a picture about halfway down this page that shows the difference the hooks make in how the bit sits in the horse's mouth before the rider has done anything with the reins.

 

[Caol Ila]

Might be worth trying.

He yields laterally and longitudinally on both the Myler combo and the Myler D ring. He’s better in the combo but the D ring isn’t awful (my friend’s bit is too wide for him….this may not have helped). It’s non ported snaffles he seems to take offence at.

I bought him with the goals of trail riding and hopefully riding some basic figures in the school, although the latter was more aspirational at the time of purchase. However, he has finally taken the message on board that arenas are not horsey torture chambers, and he can be steered around one in walk and trot in a reasonably civilised (albeit green) way.

When I really think about it, does it matter what tack he goes in? Probably not. Am I really going to take him to BD shows? Doubtful. That’s why I have Hermosa. If a western bridle makes him happy, he can have one.

I would like to find him something less faffy, though, just for my sanity, really. There has to be something.

 

[Caol Ila]

And let’s not kid ourselves… I did buy him this bridle. The levels of not BD legal here go well beyond the bit.

 

[tallyho!]

To be fair a "dressagy contact" is nothing more than yielding to any bit (preferably a simple snaffle) and being able to bend the poll with a simple upward gentle lift momentarily on the corners of the lips. I really do disagree with the connotation that dressage requires a "stronger" contact - quite the opposite. It requires an ever softening contact. If you hear differently, I can't believe it is even dressage.

You might do well with some in hand sessions with a simple snaffle, the basics are always the best. Any horse only wants to know what is what. It doesn't matter what bit you use, in their mind it just needs to be "this" = "that". You honestly don't need so much stuff. Even if you have a horse with a history of over-lorinery, you can still teach what you feel are "aids" to them using your new bit. A bit is literally that, a bit you use to give directions to this mouth. So then you ask... they yield... you say "good lad/lass"... you let go and then they think "ah right, that's what you want, cool". Stronger bits are only ever sign a of miscommunication - I learned all that the hard way - went from a pelham jumping a super strong 17.2h to a snaffle... its about communication)

I'd only have a single joint snaffle - I tried loads of bits in my own mouth at a clinic. You guys should too.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

https://www.horsemanshipsaddlery.uk/horse_pony_bits.html

I really like the mouthpiece on these. Pepsi also hates much tongue pressure and has incredibly sensitive bars and he’s much happier in this (I’ve got the loose ring lip relief version, but there’s all sorts)

 

[Caol Ila]

He really wasn't having the single jointed snaffle. That was the worst of the lot. So terrible I forgot it ever happened.

The ones iknowmyvalue suggested look good. I really could do with the chance to try a range of different ones and see what he likes, but the local bit fitter has yet to respond to message. Maybe she's on holiday.

 

[ycbm]

I tried loads of bits in my own mouth at a clinic. You guys should too.

I can't think of any good reason to do this? I don't have a gap in my teeth, a long jaw bone, or even the same sense of taste. What's the point supposed to be?
.

 

[Hepsibah]

He really wasn't having the single jointed snaffle. That was the worst of the lot. So terrible I forgot it ever happened.

The ones iknowmyvalue suggested look good. I really could do with the chance to try a range of different ones and see what he likes, but the local bit fitter has yet to respond to message. Maybe she's on holiday.

Used Myler eggbutt low port snaffles with hooks go for between £40 and £50 on ebay. You could buy one to try and re-sell if it doesn't suit pretty much for the cost of postage.

 

[Highmileagecob]

My old cob is a native type with loads of tongue and soft tissue, and possibly low palate too. We had the same problems with head tossing, tongue over bit, head shaking, holding bit in teeth and turning round and coming home.... When my daughter stopped riding and handed him over to me I tried a Dr Cook type cross under and have never looked back. He is terrible in a sidepull - simply ignores it, but seems to respond well to the pressure and release of the cross under. He's been bitless for around ten years or so now and I have hacked him for miles. You may get some ribbing from people who think you will have no brakes, but it all comes down to schooling. Once you have taught the meaning of the pressure and release, and he will listen to your leg, it is no different from riding with a bit, except the contact is very soft. Good luck, I hope you find a solution.

 

[tallyho!]

I can't think of any good reason to do this? I don't have a gap in my teeth, a long jaw bone, or even the same sense of taste. What's the point supposed to be?
.

You can try it on your hands if you don't want to try them like I did. The point is to understand.

 

[ycbm]

You can try it on your hands if you don't want to try them like I did. The point is to understand.

We can't understand. Our mouth physiology is nothing like a horse's, the feeling in our hands is nothing like what a horse feels in its mouth and our brains don't think about someone putting a bit in our mouths the same way.

All we can do is accept that if a horse takes a bit willingly and works without protest, and without having its mouth clamped shut, with a bit in its mouth, then it's OK with that bit.
.

 

[tallyho!]

We can't understand. Our mouth physiology is nothing like a horse's, the feeling in our hands is nothing like what a horse feels in its mouth and our brains don't think about someone putting a bit in our mouths the same way.

All we can do is accept that if a horse takes a bit willingly and works without protest, and without having its mouth clamped shut, with a bit in its mouth, then it's OK with that bit.
.

Where’s the proof that we can’t assimilate that feeling? Is there absolute proven studies to show we can’t emulate or empathise? What’s wrong with trying?

It was an interesting talk. Humans always find ways to disconnect ourselves even though there are similarities that we can relate to.

Many eminent scientists have tried to feel what animals feel in the name of conservation. The minute someone tries to connect with a working animal in what is perceived odd, it’s very often defended until proven. Some people are trying to improve things for the average working horse and any step forward in understanding should be explored.

I would honestly encourage anyone to give a Pelham a try… find a small Pelham, attach it all as you should with the chain under your jaw, apply the action… it doesn’t take a lot before you’re begging to stop.

Just imagine it. You don’t need to try.

 

[TheLoneWanderer]

My mare goes in a sweet iron universal gag with a link in the middle, perhaps he might like the same?