Blowing out when girth is done up - Ulcers?

[Courbette]

Has anybody experienced this as a symptom of ulcers? Horse in question has been treated in the past and I'm am fairly certain he is having a reoccurrence but was just wondering if this could be another symptom. A few weeks ago he seemed to have lost weigh as his girth was loose and now I can barely fasten it

 

[Green Bean]

I will be interested in any responses to this too

 

[tallyho!]

It's one sign - but you mention he's lost weight recently - does the saddle still fit?

Mine blows out if the saddle is even a centimetre out from where it should be. I get told very clearly that it isn't comfortable.

Mine suffered terribly with gut issues about 4 years ago and the signs given were much different - couldn't get near her belly nevermind put a saddle on. I guess I've learnt to differentiate between gut pain and saddle pain.

 

[Green Bean]

It's one sign - but you mention he's lost weight recently - does the saddle still fit?

Mine blows out if the saddle is even a centimetre out from where it should be. I get told very clearly that it isn't comfortable.

Mine suffered terribly with gut issues about 4 years ago and the signs given were much different - couldn't get near her belly nevermind put a saddle on. I guess I've learnt to differentiate between gut pain and saddle pain.

That is quite interesting Tallyho, I am having the saddle fitter around this Thursday (post in Tack Room) and hadn't thought about bloating and saddle fitment as related.

 

[Courbette]

It's one sign - but you mention he's lost weight recently - does the saddle still fit?

Mine blows out if the saddle is even a centimetre out from where it should be. I get told very clearly that it isn't comfortable.

Mine suffered terribly with gut issues about 4 years ago and the signs given were much different - couldn't get near her belly nevermind put a saddle on. I guess I've learnt to differentiate between gut pain and saddle pain.

I have wondered this. The horse in question is very clearly unhappy with having his saddle put on so I haven't ridden him since my original post. I have broached the subject with his owner but I think the general consensus is I get as seen as being too soft I have no experience fitting a saddle but his back has changed shape and I don't think it suspect it might not have been properly fitted in the first place. I'm a bit of a tough position as his general demeanour has changed recently and I want to get hm help but he doesn't belong to me. He did used to puff himself out when I first began riding him but he was scoped and treated and this behaviour had seemed to go away.

 

[sbloom]

So often people think it's about the girth (and often don't think about ulcers so very glad you're looking in that direction) but it's so often about the saddle, when girthing you're clamping the saddle to the horse so it can be the moment they object.

 

[Courbette]

So often people think it's about the girth (and often don't think about ulcers so very glad you're looking in that direction) but it's so often about the saddle, when girthing you're clamping the saddle to the horse so it can be the moment they object.

Thats a really good point. Initially I was told his dislike of the saddle was a learned response from having ulcers in the past so I accepted this as I had come into the situation mid way so to speak. Then he was treated for ulcers and had a period of time of work but was noticeably improved afterwards. Now he is very reactive again. I think it very well could be the saddle so I'll have a read up on how to fit a saddle and see if I can spot any glaring issues. I've just never heard of blowing up before the girth as a symptom of ulcers and it seems to me in this case it could be although thinking about the saddle we are potentially dealing with several problems. Poor horse

 

[sbloom]

Can you not have a fitter to check it, a second opinion if necessary? And ulcers are triggered by something else in almost all cases so you will have an "evidence" trail to track to prevent a flare up, if it is the saddle that might be good news as it's relatively easily solvable.

 

[Courbette]

Can you not have a fitter to check it, a second opinion if necessary? And ulcers are triggered by something else in almost all cases so you will have an "evidence" trail to track to prevent a flare up, if it is the saddle that might be good news as it's relatively easily solvable.

That would be my preferred option but he isn't my horse unfortunately. I would always use a saddle fitter for a horse of my own as I am aware I don't know what I'm looking at. He is a veteran and has quite a few issues which the more I am digging into the more I think he needs a through workup from a vet. He is still in ridden work but I have now stopped riding him as I'm concerned about his wellbeing with suspected ulcers, potential discomfort from his tack and he didn't seem completely sound behind the last time I did ride. He also has a skin condition so any or all of these could be providing the stress to trigger ulcers. I'm going to have another chat with his owner but it might end up being a case of me walking away from the horse. It is a shame as despite his problems I adore the horse and would like to see him sorted but I'm not in the driving seat. The more evidence I get that he has something wrong the more chance I get of him getting some help.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

This is a really interesting myth busting page about blowing up https://equusmagazine.com/behavior/blowing-up-a-girthing-myth-8552

 

[sbloom]

I think the only thing it really busts is that it's a breathing out (which it can't be, if anything it would be breathing in) but yes, they do jam out their ribcage as protection, and some never stop doing it, even with a much better saddle or cured ulcers, because it's become such an intractable habit.

 

[tallyho!]

Out of interest - do many people do saddle fit/tack courses if they are being held locally?

unless people have done BHS or pony club in the past, where do people generally get this education?

 

[hopscotch bandit]

I think the only thing it really busts is that it's a breathing out (which it can't be, if anything it would be breathing in) but yes, they do jam out their ribcage as protection, and some never stop doing it, even with a much better saddle or cured ulcers, because it's become such an intractable habit.

Had this discussion with someone recently. Its actually breathing in.
Lets face it most of us would breath in if we were having a belt tightened around us! Its interesting the point about doing the girth up slowly though. I will do my horses girth up and then do something else and then tighten it again before leading to the mounting block, possibly checking before mounting and then once mounted and walked a few yards.

 

[sbloom]

Out of interest - do many people do saddle fit/tack courses if they are being held locally?

unless people have done BHS or pony club in the past, where do people generally get this education?

There aren't many courses for horse owners afaik, I share as much info as possible with my customers, after all if they know when they need a check then we can really keep on top of the fit and nip any issues caused by shape changes in bud. There are a few around, but when I've done talks people don't want to pay for them and if you do them for free, certainly for me as a specialist, people are really appreciative at the talk when you chat to them afterwards but you don't always get the fits booked. Perhaps generalists do better, I do much better from personal recommendation.

It is tricky as fitters all have their own ways of fitting, for instance there is an approach to fitting that is shared widely on social media, they do very slick videos, yet if you applied their theories to saddles not made by them they wouldn't work at all and could cause issues. Even SMS fitters all have a slightly different take on favourite brands etc indicating they have a slightly different saddle fit model, stemming from their personal beliefs and experience. I'm not sure what to suggest, there is a steering group looking at trying to make the industry more homogenous but we'll have to see if it comes up with realistic proposals and gains traction.

Had this discussion with someone recently. Its actually breathing in.
Lets face it most of us would breath in if we were having a belt tightened around us! Its interesting the point about doing the girth up slowly though. I will do my horses girth up and then do something else and then tighten it again before leading to the mounting block, possibly checking before mounting and then once mounted and walked a few yards.

However the Equus Magazine article actually says says it's not breathing either in or out - "what is happening is that the horse is tensing his abdominal muscles, an action that expands the width of the chest slightly". I know that in many cases it's that people forget all their normal routines when having a saddle fitted but it's amazing how many people think that I must have tightened the girth when first putting the saddle on as they don't check it when they go to mount! I would never recommend tightening immediately and would always suggest doing exactly as you say.

 

[Courbette]

I will do my horses girth up and then do something else and then tighten it again before leading to the mounting block, possibly checking before mounting and then once mounted and walked a few yards.

This is what I do starting with the girth on the loosest setting. I also prefer to have mine slightly looser when mounted than some so the horse can expand his rib cage when working. Having looked at the article it seems likely, in the case of my horse, that it is a reaction to a recent irritant given this behavior stopped for several months.

I'd like to know more about how to fit both saddle and bridle. I use common sense and guidelines but nothing beats experience.