BMA report on Glucosamine

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I was watching this mornings news which reported that the British Medical Assocaition (BMA) have proven that glucosamine has no added benefits for arthritis and other joint related conditions, with Doctors being advised to stop recommending it to patients.

Assuming this would also be true for animals, would you ditch your joint supplement?!

(sorry - may have been British Medical journal)
 
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Well...the jury is still out.

In a recent physio journal (sorry- don't know which one- my friend is a physio and we were discussing this the other day) there is evidence that HIGH dose glucosamine+chondroitin IS effective. Certainly its been beneficial to our aged rottie bless her.

Some of my patients (human ones:))anecdotally say it helps too.

(PS...it was the BMJ)
 
Placebo affect? Will be interesting to see if these studies influence the joint supplement market, both human and animal.
I have a horse on cortaflex for hock ocd, and a dog on a canine joint supplement for shoulder arthritis, and haven't noticed an improvement for either, just a larger hole in my bank balance!
 
Well it definitely sorts my hip out and thats good enough for me. As far as the ponios go i'm sure it loosened up my old boy and it deffo helps my dog so for us I'm still gonna keep using it.
 
Great - this is good news.... As if the whole joint supplement market wasn't complicated enough!!
Now, one of the main ingredients appears to have no evidence it works. The annoying thing is, chrondroitin does work in humans (supposedly) but I thought the jury was still out in using it for horses as the molecules were too big for horses to aborb properly, whereas we can! so what does that leave us with then?

x
 
I can only say that my elderly whippet was previously unable to get out of her bed in the morning. After 10 days on Cortaflex she could get out of bed and was back chasing bunnies - albeit in a wobbly way. She started to walk along wagging her tail. That is enough proof for me.
 
I just posted on the thread in veterinary


There are a lot of supplements out there that dont contain the correct amounts for improvement, I started feeding the recommended 10g 10g 4g and noticed huge improvement and this was vet recommended.

Once I took my horse off it within 5 days he was worse, back on it again now and improved he doesnt know what hes on so you cant blame placebo for horses. And it isnt me thinking him better, this horse has a deffinate irregular gait when in pain which reverts to near normal when supplemented.

Having said that Id like to read the report, if theres scientific evidence for it not working then it needs to be taken notice of.
 
PurplePickle said:
I just posted on the thread in veterinary


There are a lot of supplements out there that dont contain the correct amounts for improvement, I started feeding the recommended 10g 10g 4g and noticed huge improvement and this was vet recommended.

Once I took my horse off it within 5 days he was worse, back on it again now and improved he doesnt know what hes on so you cant blame placebo for horses. And it isnt me thinking him better, this horse has a deffinate irregular gait when in pain which reverts to near normal when supplemented.

Having said that Id like to read the report, if theres scientific evidence for it not working then it needs to be taken notice of.
Click to expand...

so which joint supp has the correct levels in?
i currently feed equimins joint supp but was thinking of changing as i'm not sure i've seen a difference in her...
 
posie_honey said:
so which joint supp has the correct levels in?
i currently feed equimins joint supp but was thinking of changing as i'm not sure i've seen a difference in her...
Click to expand...

I *think* though I am not sure she is feeding riaflex complete, which has those exact ingredients/dosage in. (suppleaze gold can do the same-ish also i think, if given several scoops)

x
 
Im a physio student and been taught that once the effects of OA have occured there isnt alot that can be done, other than pain management and gentle exercise-the best thing! However taking glucosamine/chrondrotin at the correct levels(high dose) will help to prevent any further degenration or atleast slow down the rate of this. It is however much more beneficial if it is always taken as it allows the joints to be healthier for longer and slows the onset of anything such as OA, so as for the effects on OA joints it is probably true that its not worth nhs providing it espec as you cna buy in shos if you think it will help but like sidney said it is probably more of a placebo effect.
I have a dog with OA of elbow...she is on it maybe it has an effect but she had an op and is a tough cookie so who knows but she has it to help keep other joints healthy, have an old horse with OA in fetlocks...he was on it but no real improvements so not on it now as to give the high levels to him would cost a small fortune!! however he does exercise everyday in the field and is happy!
 
This is interesting. Although I would also like to read the full text version. Maybe it's too early to be published on PubMed??.

Ive been using Equiflex (Glucosamine and Chond) for my pony's general stiffness for 4 years now and although I havent noticed an improvment, and i suppose people would say that spending £17 every 2 months could be throwing money down the drain.

But there's always the chance that she is feeling the benefits, even if they are small improvments that I am not able to notice, but make a difference to her.

So for that reason, i wouldnt want to take her off the Equiflex.
 
I feed mine a supplement but it wasn't to treat existing stiffness or arthritis, I put him on it more as a preventative measure as he's 19 and we still compete etc so I thought may do him some good. Thing is I am never going to know whether it's beneficial or not really am I, I guess I just hope it is helping to support his system really. he certainly seems fine and isn't suffering with any arthritic conditions as yet and doesn't seem to be showing any signs of wanting to take life easier.
 
It's just one research paper. I don't know what the study design was, but it's very difficult to eliminate biases in research & statistics can tell us very strange things, so I wouldn't take any single study as proof of anything. Evidence maybe, but proof? No. I would also be interested to know who funded the work & consider what vested interests they might have.

A few years ago there was a paper published in the BMJ which, using an accepted methodology, found that further research was required to provide evidence that using a parachute improved the chances of survival of a person falling out of an aircraft. The point was that research findings can be misleading so try to keep a cynical eyebrow raised (or something like that). I'm not going to throw away my personal glucosamine supply, or that of my dog & my horse, any time soon - I think it's good stuff ;)
 
Well, my dog who has just had surgery for hip dysplasia, for 2 weeks before we gave her Nutraquin (glucosamine and chondra something..) and I can GUARANTEE you it works - I could tell, because she could walk!!

Things like these are often proven to be a bit dodgy later. Importantly, if its working for your animal, feed it! If it doesnt, find something else.
 
the paper is available to view from the bmj website for those with permissions, it is easy to find on the front page ;) it also looked at chondroitin
 
poppymoo said:
there is evidence that HIGH dose glucosamine+chondroitin IS effective.
Click to expand...

My vet recently told me not to bother with anything that had chondroitin in it as in studies he's read it's not absorbed into the body - but that was horses we were talking about not humans/dogs. I think with most of these supplements whether it's for joints or breathing that its what suits each horse - what will 'work' on one animal won't on another....
 
Yeah....the paper I was discussing with a colleague was about humans....I'm not whether the data is transferable to horses.

I do know it has helped our dog, as I say - OH has been giving her high dose glucosamine/chondroitin ( from H+B;)) and the difference has been noticeable- even to me, and I don't take much notice of the dogs TBH:o

IMO.....if it gives you relief, use it. Even if it is placebo effect- so what:D
 
My friend is a Doctor and I was discussing Glucosamine with her. From the reports and studies she's reviewed, it would appear it's more effective in animals than humans.

I've recently started feeding Glucosamine as more of a "prevention is better than cure" mindset and it's changed my horses way of going. My trainer asked me if anything had changed anything with him recently as she noticed his movement had got bigger and he appeared more supple, the only thing that had changed was the fact I was feeding him glucosamine!
 
posie_honey said:
so which joint supp has the correct levels in?
i currently feed equimins joint supp but was thinking of changing as i'm not sure i've seen a difference in her...
Click to expand...



Well Riaflex does but you have to feed enough daily doseage like any of them, there are others out there like synequin however the lady that sells riaflex did tell me Id probably be able to use their glucosamine/msm mix eventually which is quite cheap
 
My vet told me years ago that it had to have a minimum of 10g per whatever, sorry cant remember that bit of it in to be of any use and that lots of supplements are just padded out with a type of flour and are useless. Cortavet didnt work for my old mare but Feedmark Flexamine worked so well she was scary!!
Different things work for different horses. My current horse gets a maintenance dose of Cortavet daily and has since he was 4 yrs old. Ive had so much bad luck with horses, I just started giving it him as a preventative when I bought him, hes 12 now and fingers crossed, no problems yet, touching wood frantically.
 
My border terrier was lame at 6 months old with very severe hip dysplasia, X rays showed the worst. We were told to have both hips operated (to remove the bone). Instead we used initial courses of hydrotherapy plus ongoing daily MSM/glucosmome (Synoquin).

She has not had a lame day since completing the hydro and she is now rising 7 years old.

That's good enough for me. Subsequent X rays showed the muscle having developed and supporting the joint, it was visible on the X ray.

She has gentle exercise and isnt overfed as weight could have an adverse effect.

Im less convinced about horses (as you have to feed so much to have the same effect as a small capsule for a terrier), and I do think things like hydrotherapy are invaluable in combination but am very content that its had an effect big time. And unlike with humans, there is less likelihood of placebo distortion.
 
Prophylaxis is an expensive business, and this certainly makes me think but the study was about osteoarthritis patients.

Technically, inflexible joints and OA are not the same thing. So unless a study proved CLA, MSM, Chrond, Gluc wasn't good enough for flexibilty and joint health, I'll still consider using these supplements.

Did an insurance company pay a sum for the trial by any chance???
 
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