Body not absorbing proteins. Thoughts please.

L

littlebranshill

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 February 2008
Messages
193
www.littlebranshill.co.uk
There is a horse on my yard that has had dramatic weight loss in the last couple of weeks. The vet took bloods and it has come back that the horse is not absorbing any proteins - hence weight loss etc. The owner has spoken to the vet but can't remember what the vet said as to why although scanning (presumably for a tumour) was mentioned. Is cancer the likely culprit here? (The horse has no worms, eats 3 meals a day, lots of hay and is out 24/7, he is 25 years old)
 
I'm interested in the responses - I have an ex chaser who needs what we call a body builder diet (VERY high in protein) to keep weight on. He is a rescue who almost died of starvation 6 years ago and I often wonder whether that affected his metabolism in some way. What is the mechanism by which proteins cross the gut wall?
 
I have an elderly pony that has had a dramatic weight loss over a two week period. Vet thought the most likely explanation was a tumour somewhere. We decided not to put him through a barrage of tests as he is 26.

Pony is currently eating well and passing dung as usual, and despite a massive increase in calories he hasn't gained any weight. He is usually laminitic and is now having ad lib seed haylage, yet he hasn't developed laminitis. He is really on borrowed time and I will have to call it a day I fear soon, but for now he is quite happy - especially as for the first time ever he is being allowed to eat what he likes, bless him!
 
Sounds the same as what my baby died with salmonella she lost weight very quickly and had diarrhoea, she had very low protein and was isolated in hospital. She had a high temp as well and heart rate.
 
littlebranshill said:
There is a horse on my yard that has had dramatic weight loss in the last couple of weeks. The vet took bloods and it has come back that the horse is not absorbing any proteins - hence weight loss etc. The owner has spoken to the vet but can't remember what the vet said as to why although scanning (presumably for a tumour) was mentioned. Is cancer the likely culprit here? (The horse has no worms, eats 3 meals a day, lots of hay and is out 24/7, he is 25 years old)
Click to expand...



My mare had liver issues and she did not absorb proteins so we had to give her soya oil because she had odemas too. Ask the vet to check the liver etc to see why they are not being absorbed by the horse. Don't leave it too long as they go down hill fast. Speak to D&H as well as Teressa is very good with any liver or protein issues, as there might be a feed which will be better for the horse and easier to digest.

Have a full work up for GS too, the owner needs to press it's vital to find out why and get it fixed before too late

If he is loose stools there is not a time to sit back as he is loosing good bacteria in his gut,
 
Last edited:
littlebranshill said:
I forgot to mention that the horse has very bad diarrhea as well poor chap.
Click to expand...

I would be expecting a lot of action from the vet. Why the diarrhea? is there an infection that needs treating. ( or a scan for a tumour) When I had one with low protein on blood tests the vet put him on sucralfate. Big difference. Took him off way too soon and he went rapidly backwards. Back on sucralfate and it allowed the gut to heal and the horse was perfect.
 
You must get them to call their vet out, one here is a bit dogy and produces water with stools and he is on one codeine phosphate tablet in each feed which helps him, but this horse you say is loose stools too. They must call them and insits the vets come out and find out the problem asap.
 
The horse probably needs to be hospitalised- there are numerous things it could be and without diagnostic testing it'll be virtually impossible to isolate the cause. Or they accept he's reached a good age and this is unlikely to have a good outcome.
My yearling went through it last year, turned out be tumours. I wouldn't want to put any horse through that again
 
Just thought I would add. My boy went into the vets due to losing a heck of a lot of weight too. He was diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease. Like IBS in humans. He didn't have loose droppings though that is a sign of IBD. My boy couldnt absorbing his feed as his small intestines were inflamed hence the IBD. PM for more information
 
My first horse went from being rather overweight to having virtually projectile water dropping with extreme weight loss over a period of a couple of weeks. Vets took bloods, samples etc and turned out she had cancer of her liver and had to be PTS on 2nd January. When the liver reaches a certain percentage of function, it can cause dramatic symptoms and the damage is irreversible. Hope this is not the case for the horse in question, but sadly as you can see the symptoms can sometimes mean a very serious condition.
 
I was talking to our vet yesterday about this because we've had 3 on the yard in 12 months with protein absorption issues - not related causes either.

One turned out to have cancer which showed when they scoped him. Sadly he was PTS. Another has an infection and was hospitalised and looks to be heading to full recovery.

The third is a bit of a mystery because he does fine on steroids and within days of coming off them his sheath swells and condition drops. Suspected IBS right now - not sure what owner is planning next.

All 3 had pretty intensive vet visits, bloods pulled etc.
 
littlebranshill said:
There is a horse on my yard that has had dramatic weight loss in the last couple of weeks. The vet took bloods and it has come back that the horse is not absorbing any proteins - hence weight loss etc. The owner has spoken to the vet but can't remember what the vet said as to why although scanning (presumably for a tumour) was mentioned. Is cancer the likely culprit here? (The horse has no worms, eats 3 meals a day, lots of hay and is out 24/7, he is 25 years old)
Click to expand...

malabsorption syndrome can be triggered by a number of things - cancer being just one of them, it can also be due to worm burden, a recent worming, previous damage, a virus that has somehow affected the ability to absorb proteins, identifying any one cause is no easy task, and I have to say... getting a horse through malabsorption syndrome whatever the cause is incredibly tough - survival chances are not great.

Mine had cancer... she was 17 - for her because of the big 'c' in the end there really was not much that could be done but say goodbye... sorry to be doom and gloom. I will say however, that I do know of a horse that has survived it locally.

Some tips that I would pass on - get a good blood tonic into the horse... haemavite b plus given at the max dosage in the feed would be my reccomendation

Break the feeds into 5 smaller feeds, no mix, things like cubes...and soaked into a mush, avoid chaff you need things that are - intense high protein high calorie feeds... soak the feeds make them small and feel little and often - at a much higher amount than the reccomended daily amounts.

rug up like hell... the chronic weight loss will result in no body fat and muscle wastage... My mare had a hw on in june :(

horses can have difficulty eating from the floor in such cases... door mangers really help

I personally would want the horse in... out in the field it is expending precious calories it simply can not afford to lose.

Ask for the vets to confer with specialists like newmarket, liphook they can best advise,and urge her that if she wants to really fight this condition she needs a referral for her horse to a specialist horsepital asap.

DO NOT worm the horse can not afford any damage to the gut.

I would also gently discuss with your friend whether a scan is appropriate, with the best will in the world the horse is 25, if a mass is found - then what, I highly doubt that she would want to put the horse through an operation at that age.

There is a lot on Malabsorption Syndrome on the internet... its very difficult reading if you are going through dealing with this condition yourself, but it is out there.

From the bottom of my heart, I offer my very deepest sympathy to your friend for what she is going through - its awful x
 
Last edited:
I have been dealing with this since August, too much to write at this time of night and I am stressed about the horse so will be too emotional atm but, she is on steroids, has been since August, we are slowly weaning her off them at the moment - looks amazing but is not happy being ridden so I ca only assume there is pain somewhere and the steroids were masking/had reduced inflammation that is returning now we have significantly lower the does of steroids (been coming down 10 every 2 weeks or so for the last 6 week)
 
At 25 I would not be putting the horse tests at the vets and things like that, if a way forward could be found in an non invasive way at home I would call it a day .
 
Prancer & Vixen said:
malabsorption syndrome can be triggered by a number of things - cancer being just one of them, it can also be due to worm burden, a recent worming, previous damage, a virus that has somehow affected the ability to absorb proteins, identifying any one cause is no easy task, and I have to say... getting a horse through malabsorption syndrome whatever the cause is incredibly tough - survival chances are not great.

Mine had cancer... she was 17 - for her because of the big 'c' in the end there really was not much that could be done but say goodbye... sorry to be doom and gloom. I will say however, that I do know of a horse that has survived it locally.

Some tips that I would pass on - get a good blood tonic into the horse... haemavite b plus given at the max dosage in the feed would be my reccomendation

Break the feeds into 5 smaller feeds, no mix, things like cubes...and soaked into a mush, avoid chaff you need things that are - intense high protein high calorie feeds... soak the feeds make them small and feel little and often - at a much higher amount than the reccomended daily amounts.

rug up like hell... the chronic weight loss will result in no body fat and muscle wastage... My mare had a hw on in june :(

horses can have difficulty eating from the floor in such cases... door mangers really help

I personally would want the horse in... out in the field it is expending precious calories it simply can not afford to lose.

Ask for the vets to confer with specialists like newmarket, liphook they can best advise,and urge her that if she wants to really fight this condition she needs a referral for her horse to a specialist horsepital asap.

DO NOT worm the horse can not afford any damage to the gut.

I would also gently discuss with your friend whether a scan is appropriate, with the best will in the world the horse is 25, if a mass is found - then what, I highly doubt that she would want to put the horse through an operation at that age.

There is a lot on Malabsorption Syndrome on the internet... its very difficult reading if you are going through dealing with this condition yourself, but it is out there.

From the bottom of my heart, I offer my very deepest sympathy to your friend for what she is going through - its awful x
Click to expand...

The vet actually wormed the horse when she first came on Wednesday. He has had two steroid injections but his diarrhea is no better. He is getting 4 high protein meals a day with ad lib Readigrass when he is in. I don't think there is any more we can do for him. He is not depressed in himself and has a shiny healthy coat. At least having a scan will give us a diagnosis but my gut feeling is that it is a tumour. The owner will not allow any invasive surgery etc. She is so upset as she has lost her mother, her dog and now looks like loosing her horse in the space of 6 months. Very sad.
 
Sure I have replied to this....
My had was diagnosed with IBD and has made a full recovery! I don't really have a problem with it :)
 
littlebranshill said:
The vet actually wormed the horse when she first came on Wednesday. He has had two steroid injections but his diarrhea is no better. He is getting 4 high protein meals a day with ad lib Readigrass when he is in. I don't think there is any more we can do for him. He is not depressed in himself and has a shiny healthy coat. At least having a scan will give us a diagnosis but my gut feeling is that it is a tumour. The owner will not allow any invasive surgery etc. She is so upset as she has lost her mother, her dog and now looks like loosing her horse in the space of 6 months. Very sad.
Click to expand...


You are kidding? To be blunt, I would not be entertaining the vet coming back if they went and wormed a horse exhibiting malabsorption syndromes.. I have to say in reality I agree wholeheartedly with Goldenstar. As for a scan giving a diagnosis... it really probably won't, unless its a tumour, but it can just as easily be so many other things - however, I do understand the emotional need for answers - but I really would only be considering scans etc, if it was a younger horse.

Someone mentioned protexin... thats another product I would recommend, completely forgot to mention it.

In all honesty, my best advice would be to support your friend and help her to plan for the worst. I am sorry if that sounds harsh and blunt, its really not meant to be x
 
Prancer & Vixen said:
You are kidding? To be blunt, I would not be entertaining the vet coming back if they went and wormed a horse exhibiting malabsorption syndromes.. I have to say in reality I agree wholeheartedly with Goldenstar. As for a scan giving a diagnosis... it really probably won't, unless its a tumour, but it can just as easily be so many other things - however, I do understand the emotional need for answers - but I really would only be considering scans etc, if it was a younger horse.

Someone mentioned protexin... thats another product I would recommend, completely forgot to mention it.

In all honesty, my best advice would be to support your friend and help her to plan for the worst. I am sorry if that sounds harsh and blunt, its really not meant to be x
Click to expand...

They wormed the horse before doing the blood test. His diarrhea is worse today which may be due to the wormer or the change of food as the vet wants him on the highest protein - Readigrass, grass nuts, conditioning nuts and a balancer. Will suggest protexin to see if that helps.
 
Prancer & Vixen said:
You are kidding? To be blunt, I would not be entertaining the vet coming back if they went and wormed a horse exhibiting malabsorption syndromes.. I have to say in reality I agree wholeheartedly with Goldenstar. As for a scan giving a diagnosis... it really probably won't, unless its a tumour, but it can just as easily be so many other things - however, I do understand the emotional need for answers - but I really would only be considering scans etc, if it was a younger horse.

Someone mentioned protexin... thats another product I would recommend, completely forgot to mention it.



In all honesty, my best advice would be to support your friend and help her to plan for the worst. I am sorry if that sounds harsh and blunt, its really not meant to be x
Click to expand...

While I agree to a degree with what you're saying, if it is a tumour or something I don't think it would be good at the ponies age to carry on. However my boy did lose a heck of a lot of weight and was treated with steroids and he is doing fab!
 
littlebranshill said:
They wormed the horse before doing the blood test. His diarrhea is worse today which may be due to the wormer or the change of food as the vet wants him on the highest protein - Readigrass, grass nuts, conditioning nuts and a balancer. Will suggest protexin to see if that helps.
Click to expand...

The highest protein would be soya meal, whey powder or the amino acids themselves - lysine or methionine are the two most limited ones - the feeds you mentioned don't contain anywhere near as much. Check labels for % protein. Is that vet an equine vet??? Or can he suggest an equine nutritionist - if not, most of the feed companies can be helpful even if they do want to sell you their own products. Target Feeds are a division of Rowan Barberry and they sell the individual amino acids, as well as soya hulls and soya meal. Might be worth a call for advice.
 
Last edited:
Jim bob said:
While I agree to a degree with what you're saying, if it is a tumour or something I don't think it would be good at the ponies age to carry on. However my boy did lose a heck of a lot of weight and was treated with steroids and he is doing fab!
Click to expand...

JB the issue is that with true Malabsorption syndrome the vast majority of cases are fatal, that is not because the vast majority of them are not tumours - it's because by the time malabsorption kicks in the level of damage done to the gut, pancreas or liver is so bad that it is irreparable- on top of that, steroids are pretty much the only chance of a cure if curable but with them they carry a huge risk themselves - of laminitis, add to that the risk of laminitis from being seriously underweight - from the increased viscosity of the blood, the risk of damage to the heart from malnourishment... At 25 years I would say with the best will in the world what is the owner doing it for? At that age, fighting to keep a horse alive is more for the owner than for the horse. I will never find another Ebony, she was my absolute soul mate, I battled for six weeks to try and save her so I don't argue that it's sometimes worth fighting for even though she had cancer, but she was over a decade younger than this horse and in full competition work and fit as a flea when this hit her. I just don't see the point in prolonging the suffering of a 25year old horse with such an awful condition.
 
Last edited:
Completely agree with Jilla the majority of what you quote are high fibre not high protein - you need conditioning feeds, linseed, soya, copra,

Grass nuts and readi grass are fibre based and totally inappropriate. Feed them as an inbetween forage replacement by all means but do not include them as a part of feeds - you want high calorie high protein small feeds - fibre just Bulks it out at this point and takes up valuable calories to digest and valuable space in the tummy which could be filled with high protein/calorie feeds doing some good
 
My horse had this - dramatic weight loss over three weeks and then general lethargy. He was scoped for ulcers and had an ultrasound of the intestines. Diagnosed with either Inflammatory Bowel Disease or diffuse tumours in the small intestine.

Treatment was steroids and to increase his calorie intake to combat the weight loss. He was happy to eat hard feed and loved Fast Fibre, which was used as a hay replacement, as he really stopped eating hay/haylage and became very picky. Sadly he got laminitis (vet missed it and diagnosed a bruised sole which meant treatment was delayed) and he was pts. To be honest, towards the end, he became very ill, he also had a massive infection in his neck so was trying to combat that, plus the lami, plus not eating - it was the best thing for him.

I hope your horse improves - just watch them like a hawk, particularly if treatment is steroid based, any sign of lameness, get the vet and insist on x-rays to diagnose the problem - I wish I had gone with my gut and treated for laminitis earlier instead of trusting in the vet.
 
The vet came yesterday and did a scan and found thickening on the small intestine which she said could be causing the lack of protein uptake. She also gave him another steroid injection and taken more bloods. He is being kept in now and we are cramming the food down him. He has picked up greatly today but that must be the steroids and his poos have gone from liquid squit to normal. The vet said that he could go on for a further 6 months! He is going in to the hospital tomorrow to be scanned again and have a biopsy of his gut. My faith in this vet is diminishing. I really don't see the point in keeping him going - the owner is in pieces and I do not think it fair for her to have another possible 6 months of the worry.
 
littlebranshill said:
The vet came yesterday and did a scan and found thickening on the small intestine which she said could be causing the lack of protein uptake. She also gave him another steroid injection and taken more bloods. He is being kept in now and we are cramming the food down him. He has picked up greatly today but that must be the steroids and his poos have gone from liquid squit to normal. The vet said that he could go on for a further 6 months! He is going in to the hospital tomorrow to be scanned again and have a biopsy of his gut. My faith in this vet is diminishing. I really don't see the point in keeping him going - the owner is in pieces and I do not think it fair for her to have another possible 6 months of the worry.
Click to expand...

oh bless you and the owner, - its such a horrid cruel thing to go through, as I said earlier I really do feel your pain and heartbreak with this. Honestly, I don't see how your vet can give such a prediction... for many horses with true malabsorption its a constant battle with relapses, my friends horse had two relapses this year. The response to treatment is good, thats great, and yes it could be the steroids but it is still positive, as it the step to put on box rest and push the food, he still has his appetite which is also an excellent sign. However, the steroids themselves bring risks... its a very fine balancing act - you have a manourished horse (increased risk of Lami) and steroids (increased risk of Lami) Close attention needs to be paid to this, look out for any indication of laminitis.

You know my opinion, I would agree with you, that at this age, pushing forward on this is not the option I would choose, however that is from a removed perspective - this is not my horse. The first day that the vet turned up to see Ebony - he asked me what did I think was going on with her - I can remember my response exactly 'I think this is my horse dying' I said, and for her it was cancer, and it was a death sentence, but we didn't know that to begin with, and spent six endless weeks doing test after test after test, battling something that for her just could not be battled. It takes time for an owner to come around to thinking that enough is enough. Until your friend knows that she will never look back and think 'if only I had tried this' then she won't be able to make that decision by the sounds of it. She has already lost a lot in such a small space of time and she is battling for the one thing she has left... just be there and support her, encourage her to discuss options and gently remind her that whatever she chooses, even if it is to say goodbye you will support her through it x
 
to be honest though its not up to you to decide what to do with the horse - its up to the owner to say if she doesn't want to do biopsies, and she may be saying different things to you and the vet!
 
littlebranshill said:
The vet came yesterday and did a scan and found thickening on the small intestine which she said could be causing the lack of protein uptake. She also gave him another steroid injection and taken more bloods. He is being kept in now and we are cramming the food down him. He has picked up greatly today but that must be the steroids and his poos have gone from liquid squit to normal. The vet said that he could go on for a further 6 months! He is going in to the hospital tomorrow to be scanned again and have a biopsy of his gut. My faith in this vet is diminishing. I really don't see the point in keeping him going - the owner is in pieces and I do not think it fair for her to have another possible 6 months of the worry.
Click to expand...

My boy had thicken small intestine as you know and this was the IBD which is why he looked awful. He went on steroids for... 3 months , while regular blood tests and we have had no further issues with him, just got to keep him on a high oil and fibre diet, low starch ad sugar. no mixes, cereals. he is doing fab a year on!!
Also if the gut in inflamed then you need to reduce the inflamtion or thicken gut as he wont be able to get the nurtrients from the feed until you supress the gut.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top