Boggle update one year on

[Michen]

A little Boggle update. For those of you that remember literally this day a year ago he was diagnosed with a straight sesamoid ligament injury. Rehabbed well with the odd up and down, was sound and then found hock spavin.

I had him trotted up a week ago having had no turnout and he was 3/10 lame post flexion (hock spavin) but trotted out. Today he was 2/10 lame so vet is happy that we don’t need to treat the hocks at the moment again and that he should only improve from here with more fitness.

The ligament has been scanned and is absolutely great, you couldn’t find it but there are adhesions as you would expect (but try to minimise) with anything like this and unfortunately anything below the fetlock is notoriously tricky longevity wise regarding re injury. To be fair the adhesions have stood up to him being a complete idiot in the field in fairly deep poached ground!

He didn’t need to be scanned, he was signed off yonks ago but I thought I would have it done with lockdown hopefully having an end and the idea being to get him out to some events this summer etc. Vet says crack on, that worst case if it doesn’t stand up over time then he will be resigned to hacking/flat work as it was only ever him disuniting over a fence that showed anything was wrong it was so subtle.

I can’t help but feel despondent which is ridiculous as this is the best possible outcome but at his longevity, the vet is adamant the only way to know is to continue to crack on but how does anyone do that mentally knowing their horse is a bit fragile? It may never bother him again or it may. I have no intention of properly hunting him again (hound exercise or autumn on very good ground maybe). All I really want to do is pop around a BE80.

I want to wrap him in cotton wool

 

[ITPersonnage]

Only thing you can do is what I know you will do anyway, slowly slowly catch your monkey Believe me I do know how you feel, mine was fragile from age 7, you just have to adjust.

 

[Wishfilly]

I've liked only because it sounds like a positive outcome from where he was originally- not for your worries about him which I do empathise with.

I've got no advice, but I hope he stands up to all you want to do with him!

 

[ycbm]

Is not a situation I would cope with easily M, I don't envy you. If it helps, I once bought an ex racer which had been rested for a year because he pulled the suspensory ligament off the sesamoid bone of a hind fetlock. The vet said he could not race again. I had him a year with no issues before I sold him and I discovered last year that he went back into racing and raced over hurdles for another 9 seasons. I hope in 9 years you are writing a review of Boggle's 9th season at BE.
.

 

[Roxylola]

Ugh, its not the outcome you might have really wanted but horses are fragile, any horse at any time could break - a dodgy turn in the field, a rabbit hole out riding, getting cast in the stable...
There are so many ways they can break at least you know about this one, you know the symptoms and you can be cautious with it.
Fingers crossed for him having a long and happy career

 

[Michen]

I don’t know if I’m being silly guys. The ligament has healed so well. It’s spot on. The tendon sheath adhesions suck but they aren’t causing any lameness and they’ve stood up to his twatty behaviour so far. I don’t know if I’m being dramatic.

I just feel he’s damaged for good. My vet said worst case he would be uncomfortable jumping so we’d just hack and dressage. I mean that’s not exactly a bad case scenario, we aren’t talking about an unrideable lameness here. I’d be gutted but I love the horse beyond any aspirations. I think I was expecting perfection which is unrealistic.

Either way, it’s make or break. I’ll crack on and I’ll know if it’s not working.

 

[AUB]

Mine did her straight sesamoid ligament on the left hind in august 2019. Was never on box rest or restricted turnout as cannot cope, but was just turned out and not worked for 12 weeks and then very slowly rehabbed.

She’s in full work today and has never gone better. I actually feel that the break has done a lot for her rideability.
If lunged on a small circle to the left she has a tiny toe drag, that’s all. My vet also says to just crack on as she’s not lame.

 

[TPO]

I know it doesnt help and I understand how you feel but I'd imagine that there are horses at 5* with scans 10x worse than Bogs and they stand up to the work.

I reckon as you bring him into work and incrementally improve his fitness and strength then the worry will start to decrease at a similar rate.

You are incredibly vigilant and call the vet at the first sign for the full works, of required, so I cant imagine that changing.

I probably talking absolute nonsense but I think I read something somewhere (very helpful I know ?) about something that can help break down adhesions. Could be talking codswallop because my brain is scrambled right now but adhesions form because fibres heal randomly/cross fibres. Possibly some sort of laser therapy? Breaks it down and encourages correct healing.

If such a thing exists and isnt a fabrication of my sleep deprived brain then maybe something like that might help, even if more of a placebo affect to help you.

 

[ycbm]

I don't know what you have him on Michen, but I had a friend whose horse had adhesions from a check ligament tear, ligament completely healed. He was unsound unless he was on MSM and sound to do BD medium affiliated with it. MSM is cheap as chips, and well proven in proper tests. I keep mine on it full time like people who take half an aspirin a day.
.

 

[SO1]

I don't think I would jump a horse that is 2/10 lame. You have a second horse who I presume is sound enough to jump?

If you are really desperate to jump him I would wait maybe another year and see how he is then if he is trotting up sound and you are desperate to event him maybe give it a go.

My 18 year old pony had a suspensory ligament sprain injury in one of his hind legs last year, vet scanned and said it has healed, said I can jump but I am not sure I want to take any risks now, however I am not desperate to jump and quite happy just hacking and in the school. He was doing veteran showing before his injury so will continue to do that.

 

[Trouper]

It's tough being a horse "parent"!!! I can see why you want to wrap him in cotton wool but they have such relatively short lives. What does he love doing?? Can you do a little of that so that he can enjoy the best life he can??

 

[Ambers Echo]

I totally get your anxiety and I've got no answers as I felt exactly that way about Amber. Just didn't wamg to read and run. Wishing you both the best possible outcome. I'm.sure over time your confidence in his ability to happily work will increase x

 

[ycbm]

I don't think I would jump a horse that is 2/10 lame. You have a second horse who I presume is sound enough to jump?

.

I wouldn't either if it was all the time, but as I read it, it's only for a limited number of strides after a flexion? I'd be happy with that.

 

[milliepops]

I don't think I would jump a horse that is 2/10 lame. You have a second horse who I presume is sound enough to jump?

If you are really desperate to jump him I would wait maybe another year and see how he is then if he is trotting up sound and you are desperate to event him maybe give it a go.

My 18 year old pony had a suspensory ligament sprain injury in one of his hind legs last year, vet scanned and said it has healed, said I can jump but I am not sure I want to take any risks now, however I am not desperate to jump and quite happy just hacking and in the school. He was doing veteran showing before his injury so will continue to do that.

2/10 lame after flexion, not in general I think?!

 

[Michen]

Sorry guys a bit caught up with work so not reading replies thoroughly but to confirm he’s 2/10 lame post flexion and it trots out in enough time to pass a vet. I can’t imagine many badminton horses would pass that test Tbh so I have no issue jumping him at a low level as long as he’s nor disuniting (sign of ligament injury).

I know my horse. Inside out. It’s what led to finding this diagnosis in the first place. There would never, ever be a situation where he was asked to work beyond his physically capabilities. And that’s despite the fact he’s a horse that would jump the moon with a broken leg. I know him, I know how he should feel, I know when something isn’t right.

 

[milliepops]

Millie had adhesions after sdft surgery which loosened as she started to do more athletic work so I think you might still see improvement.

As to how do you get over the worry.... I think its always there in the background after a soft tissue injury but IME gradually it begins to fade as you see the structures standing up to work.

 

[Michen]

Millie had adhesions after sdft surgery which loosened as she started to do more athletic work so I think you might still see improvement.

As to how do you get over the worry.... I think its always there in the background after a soft tissue injury but IME gradually it begins to fade as you see the structures standing up to work.

I nearly messaged you MP but figured you had enough going on Atm. Thank you for that. I will see how it goes. The most important thing is that he lives a long and happy life and if certain things aren’t possible with that it doesn’t really matter to anyone (other than me, for a bit)

 

[Michen]

I don't think I would jump a horse that is 2/10 lame. You have a second horse who I presume is sound enough to jump?

If you are really desperate to jump him I would wait maybe another year and see how he is then if he is trotting up sound and you are desperate to event him maybe give it a go.

My 18 year old pony had a suspensory ligament sprain injury in one of his hind legs last year, vet scanned and said it has healed, said I can jump but I am not sure I want to take any risks now, however I am not desperate to jump and quite happy just hacking and in the school. He was doing veteran showing before his injury so will continue to do that.

To clarify, he is trotting up sound pre flexion. It’s only post flexion. And it trots out quickly.

I’ve hacked this horse for the last year. He’s had double the recovery time given to him for the ligament. The vet says restricting his fitness and canter work is only hindering him soundness wise (as the lameness blocked to the hocks and is due to hock spavin).

He wants me to crack on and then look again in 3 months but his prediction is he will only improve.

 

[milliepops]

Ahh all groovy here, just a bit sleep deprived ? I was a bit disappointed when M first came back to work as the adhesions were making her lame but it did come right with time and care.

Sounds like vet is very supportive so all you can do is continue with your eyes wide open and enjoy him.

 

[Michen]

I don't know what you have him on Michen, but I had a friend whose horse had adhesions from a check ligament tear, ligament completely healed. He was unsound unless he was on MSM and sound to do BD medium affiliated with it. MSM is cheap as chips, and well proven in proper tests. I keep mine on it full time like people who take half an aspirin a day.
.

he’s just on equinmins (until it runs out) Boswelia is (recent addition) and brewers yeast which I feed to all horses in my case.

I’ll have a look!

 

[Michen]

Ahh all groovy here, just a bit sleep deprived ? I was a bit disappointed when M first came back to work as the adhesions were making her lame but it did come right with time and care.

Sounds like vet is very supportive so all you can do is continue with your eyes wide open and enjoy him.

I guess the fact he’s sound on the ligament WITH adhesions is a good thing. Haven’t been online enough tonight to catch up Re Kira but my fingers are very crossed. Xx

 

[Michen]

I totally get your anxiety and I've got no answers as I felt exactly that way about Amber. Just didn't wamg to read and run. Wishing you both the best possible outcome. I'm.sure over time your confidence in his ability to happily work will increase x

Thanks AE. I feel, sickeningly, that we’ve been through a similar year with our soulmates being injured and in some ways being “replaced” with Another horse that doesn’t set our world on fire.

Hope you are ok and thank god still have Bog and Amber to kiss their velvet noses and admire their beauty whatever the future holds. Xx

 

[Michen]

Love my vet. Late night email “is this surgical I am worried.”

Reply to the extent of certainly not, never interfere when there’s not a problem which there isn’t and experience of these is they ease abs aren’t an issue long term (he’s an experienced vet so..!?).

 

[Pinkvboots]

he’s just on equinmins (until it runs out) Boswelia is (recent addition) and brewers yeast which I feed to all horses in my case.

I’ll have a look!

In response to ycbm and the msm I feed it to both of my horses and I think it definitely makes a difference, my 17 year old horse had a hole in his hind suspensory when he was 12 his still going strong although I don't jump and am careful on deep rough ground.

The 16 year old did a suspensory and had soft tissue damage around the fetlock his also got hock arthritis and slight navicular, he looks a bit stiff in extreme weather but loosens up quickly, I also feed him boswellia and have tried various joint supplements instead at times but I find the msm and boswellia really makes a difference to him he just looks so much better when I feed him both.

 

[DabDab]

I have no experience of adhesions, and I know you are still worried about the possibility of future weakness, but I just wanted to say congratulations for getting him back to pretty much full activities.
You've done an amazing job caring for and rehabbing him.

His 'recovered' condition is still pretty new news to you. I'm sure in a few months of fitness building etc you will feel a lot more comfortable about it all.

 

[Red-1]

The vet says crack on. Bog has had all the rehab and more. I would tentatively start, as you won't know how you feel about it, or how he feels about it, until you start.

You said yourself, he could pass a vetting. If you start upping the work and introducing more canter fitness on hills, then jumping, you are virulent enough to stop as soon as he isn't enjoying it.

An injury can happen to any horse at any time. Even the fittest/strongest can have a mis-step and tweak something. I would go test and see what you both find fun.

 

[scats]

I would start bringing him back into more work in a steady manner, with the absolute intention of getting back out to some BE, but perhaps in a much longer timeframe.
I think the stronger you can get the surrounding structures, the more chance you have of keeping him sound and in a decent level of work. I would probably use this year as a further rehab year, upping the work/type of work but on a much more controlled timeframe.

I had one tear 70% of a collateral ligament back in 2005 and end up with extensive scar tissue.

 

[SmallSteps]

I had exactly this, SL injury and vet said crack on and I felt like a traitor. I brought him back into work as if I was condemning him to the gallows, because I was on a fragile horse testing to see if he broke. It's miserable so mostly I wanted to say I don't think you're crazy for finding it miserable and I'm sorry that this is happening to you. If it helps my horse was so much happier for being in work, if it was up to him he would have gone for it. (Mine turned out to have DSLD/ ESPA but the suspensory he originally blew never went again, so there's that).

 

[Alibear]

Your vet is the professional here and you've paid for his advise, continue follow it. Crack on and have fun. I'd suggest working hard on focusing on the here and now rather than past of future. Work with the Boggle you have today, each and every day.

 

[Michen]

Thanks so much everyone whose taken the time to reply. I will crack on, the vet said given the length of time and his level of fitness (which is pretty good) to just treat him like a normal horse in terms of fittening him up for canter work and jumping. Truth is he has already done a lot of cantering (unasked!) because he’s a complete nut job to hack at the moment ?‍

I do feel a bit concerned about the future for him if he can’t have a busy ish life. He really does thrive off mental stimulation and getting out and about. This is the sort of crap we have with him at the moment (sound up) screaming his way around a hack.. the minute he has more to “do” he pipes down and is far more civilised in every way.

Anyway, hopefully he will have a long and happy future back being the busy chap he once was.