BOGOF! Where do I stand on this and wwyd?

[bakewell]

If you do feel that running to full term and then having the foal put down is something you might consider, you might find that your local hunt would be helpful. ie if you could send the mare there to foal and dry off, they would be able and appropriate to provide resolution. (And if you wish to tell your daughter the foal died this may make it easier for her too)
Likewise this very sad situation could have an upshot if the colostrum was stripped and sent to foal bank.

Consider all the negative things that would not immediately be obvious; a horse with behavioural difficulties, inherited conditions, inbreeding. That's the risk when you don't know the sire. And as you recognise; so many unwanted horses already.

 

[AmyMay]

Read GG's Pm.

 

[flaxen]

She was blood tested as the vet said she was too small to have an internal. I presume a scan would tell us how far along she is? Also if it was aborted now I assume she would have to birth the foal but it would be dead? Sorry to ask stupid questions but I know very little about breeding.[/QUOTE

If the vet said she is too small for a rectal then she is too small for a scan as they are done rectally, unless you can find a small female vet with very slim hands and arms and your pony is sedated and given a dose of buscopan which will relax her muscles and prevent her from tensing so will be less likely to tear but not guaranteed.

 

[Sukistokes2]

OMG! I am horrified!!!! Murder a baby, come on WTF, we are meant to be horse lovers on here!!!
Before you ask yes it has happened to me, I did buy a mare, yes she was in foal. Yes she did give birth, was I scared, yes, was I worried, yes! What happened? Well I gained my horse of a lifetime that's what happened!
I am so glad that some sensible voices are now airing there view!!!
What a lovely story to tell a child, your pony gave birth and I killed the baby while you were at school! Some respect she will gain for the sanctity of life....yes melodramatic I know but I am really shocked!

 

[charlie76]

I have to say, I'm usually a hard person when it comes to making decisions but I really can't get my head round the suggestion of simply putting the foal down !

 

[bakewell]

Again apologies for stupid questions / musings because breeding is not an area I know anything about but is it easier for the mare to process and understand a foal born dead than one that is born live and then removed? I assume the former but haven't had any experience of mares and foals.

Sorry missed this.
All mares are different. Some first time mothers are utterly astonished, some reject or even kill their foals. Some are fine. That she is a first timer would make it easier to get the foal away etc.
Critical bonding comes with sniffing, licking and nursing. You should remove a foal before any of this occurs.

A stillborn doesn't display any behaviours, and they don't seem to interest the mare as much... they paw and sniff but it's not as animated (this is just my personal experience). They ignore it after a few hours. They don't seem to mourn it and don't seem to mind when it's removed.

Remember the death of young is perfectly normal, a standard risk of reproduction. In evolutionary terms, she can't afford to sit there moping, she'll go back to the herd. Do be aware she may go into foal heat (this is an estrus shortly after birth), so don't confuse this with emotional foaling responses.

We've had a lot of conditions with stillbirths on the farm over the years (various virus outbreaks etc, not that we are a disease-tastic place, you just do get used to seeing them more and have grown up on a farm). You will be far more upset than the dam. Her job is to get on with making another one.

 

[thatsmygirl]

OMG! I am horrified!!!! Murder a baby, come on WTF, we are meant to be horse lovers on here!!!
Before you ask yes it has happened to me, I did buy a mare, yes she was in foal. Yes she did give birth, was I scared, yes, was I worried, yes! What happened? Well I gained my horse of a lifetime that's what happened!
I am so glad that some sensible voices are now airing there view!!!
What a lovely story to tell a child, your pony gave birth and I killed the baby while you were at school! Some respect she will gain for the sanctity of life....yes melodramatic I know but I am really shocked!

I am also disgusted. Walking away from this one. Totally disgusted.

 

[Doormouse]

OMG! I am horrified!!!! Murder a baby, come on WTF, we are meant to be horse lovers on here!!!
Before you ask yes it has happened to me, I did buy a mare, yes she was in foal. Yes she did give birth, was I scared, yes, was I worried, yes! What happened? Well I gained my horse of a lifetime that's what happened!
I am so glad that some sensible voices are now airing there view!!!
What a lovely story to tell a child, your pony gave birth and I killed the baby while you were at school! Some respect she will gain for the sanctity of life....yes melodramatic I know but I am really shocked!

It has happened to me before, and yes I kept the foal, the foal is now 3 and just been backed. I had to sell the mare to fund the foal, the mare was my horse of a lifetime but she was a very saleable commodity, she sold well and went to a lovely home.

I am not unaware of the reality either way and as stated it is not a decision I will take lightly.

 

[NinjaPony]

There is no way I could put a foal down as soon as it was born.... an early abortion is one thing, putting a live foal down is another... Doesn't make your situation any easier but its just something I could never, ever do.

 

[_GG_]

Deleted as PM received.

 

[Goldenstar]

I am pretty practical about putting horses to sleep , but I could not euthanise a foal just because it was a BOGOF .
I understand the logic but there's no way I could do it .

 

[crabbymare]

First I would have the mare scanned and palpated by a vet with a small hand and arm to find out the size of the foal snd from there its likely due date although from the dates you have given she would have been in foal when she was returned to the owner in April so you are looking at a probable March foal. while you are waiting for a vet say hello to GG (^^ post number 40) and talk VERY nicely to her the good thing is that a March foal will mean that your daughter is not likely to be wanting to ride as much because of the weather not normally being so good and then could ride the mare with the foal at foot as she is not going to be doing a huge amount with her at that age. being a pony the foal could be weaned at 4.5 to 5 months (not ideal but possible) and you would then have the pony back for the latter part of the summer so not a huge time to be out of work

 

[3Beasties]

Doormouse, is your inbox full?

I can hear the turmoil in your posts. I see you are in the West Country, I am in Gloucester. I am not going to get dragged in to taking in every waif and stray just because I can now, but I am already planning on getting a small herd of weanling sec a's and b's next year as I was surrounded by them as a child and I have long wanted to do this, giving them a proper start in life to go on to good homes as I see myself growing old doing this, not for money, as it will cost me more than I ever make, but just because I love them.

I would happily have your mare until weaning for you to have back and you wouldn't have to pay...I would feel utterly daft charging livery for a section a. I live on site and work from home, I can deal with Laminitics as I am putting track systems in our woods here to make a safe and interesting turnout for laminitis prone ponies.

I would cover costs and keep the foal if you want and you could visit whenever.

I won't be at all offended if this isn't something you want to do...I'm just putting it out there as an option if you want it.

Facebook is flooded with ponies needing loan homes, so you could easily get a stand in pony for your daughter.

Think it over, there's no time limit with the exception of your mare obviously, so try not to worry, take some time, sleep on it and do what will be best for you and your daughter, nobody else.

Cheryl xx

Post of the week! What an incredibly generous offer GG.

 

[Honey08]

I can't imagine even considering killing it. It sounds like you don't even know what she's in foal to yet, it may be something amazing. If you were nearer me I'd lend you a field. At least try and find a nice solution!

Edited to add, I bet you'd not do it anyway once there was a real foal in front of you. You'd have to be made of ice.

 

[Doormouse]

Doormouse, is your inbox full?

I can hear the turmoil in your posts. I see you are in the West Country, I am in Gloucester. I am not going to get dragged in to taking in every waif and stray just because I can now, but I am already planning on getting a small herd of weanling sec a's and b's next year as I was surrounded by them as a child and I have long wanted to do this, giving them a proper start in life to go on to good homes as I see myself growing old doing this, not for money, as it will cost me more than I ever make, but just because I love them.

I would happily have your mare until weaning for you to have back and you wouldn't have to pay...I would feel utterly daft charging livery for a section a. I live on site and work from home, I can deal with Laminitics as I am putting track systems in our woods here to make a safe and interesting turnout for laminitis prone ponies.

I would cover costs and keep the foal if you want and you could visit whenever.

I won't be at all offended if this isn't something you want to do...I'm just putting it out there as an option if you want it.

Facebook is flooded with ponies needing loan homes, so you could easily get a stand in pony for your daughter.

Think it over, there's no time limit with the exception of your mare obviously, so try not to worry, take some time, sleep on it and do what will be best for you and your daughter, nobody else.

Cheryl xx

I have just replied via pm, very long and emotional I'm afraid.

Thank you, thank you, thank you so very much, I am gobsmacked by your amazing generosity and so grateful. If you are honestly really sure then yes please x100, I can't think of anyone I would rather she went to.

I hope you got my pm, lots more detail and I'm afraid emotion there.

I am honestly crying with relief and amazement that someone would be so generous and kind to a complete stranger. Thank you.

 

[thatsmygirl]

Doormouse, is your inbox full?

I can hear the turmoil in your posts. I see you are in the West Country, I am in Gloucester. I am not going to get dragged in to taking in every waif and stray just because I can now, but I am already planning on getting a small herd of weanling sec a's and b's next year as I was surrounded by them as a child and I have long wanted to do this, giving them a proper start in life to go on to good homes as I see myself growing old doing this, not for money, as it will cost me more than I ever make, but just because I love them.

I would happily have your mare until weaning for you to have back and you wouldn't have to pay...I would feel utterly daft charging livery for a section a. I live on site and work from home, I can deal with Laminitics as I am putting track systems in our woods here to make a safe and interesting turnout for laminitis prone ponies.

I would cover costs and keep the foal if you want and you could visit whenever.

I won't be at all offended if this isn't something you want to do...I'm just putting it out there as an option if you want it.

Facebook is flooded with ponies needing loan homes, so you could easily get a stand in pony for your daughter.

Think it over, there's no time limit with the exception of your mare obviously, so try not to worry, take some time, sleep on it and do what will be best for you and your daughter, nobody else.

Cheryl xx

What a lovely offer no yard iv ever been on charges for a foal until its weaned and I'm in the West Country so could try changing yards.

 

[Doormouse]

I can't imagine even considering killing it. It sounds like you don't even know what she's in foal to yet, it may be something amazing. If you were nearer me I'd lend you a field. At least try and find a nice solution!

Edited to add, I bet you'd not do it anyway once there was a real foal in front of you. You'd have to be made of ice.

Read my earlier posts, I very much doubt I would too

 

[thatsmygirl]

I have just replied via pm, very long and emotional I'm afraid.

Thank you, thank you, thank you so very much, I am gobsmacked by your amazing generosity and so grateful. If you are honestly really sure then yes please x100, I can't think of anyone I would rather she went to.

I hope you got my pm, lots more detail and I'm afraid emotion there.

I am honestly crying with relief and amazement that someone would be so generous and kind to a complete stranger. Thank you.

oh I so hope this works out for you both I really do

 

[Honey08]

Good. I really hope that your solution from GG comes off. It's lovely to read the relief and happiness in your later post. Good luck.

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

Having lost a foal last year I can't say how devasting it was. My hat off to GG, fabulous and generous offer. I hope everything all works out for everyone.

 

[_GG_]

I have just replied via pm, very long and emotional I'm afraid.

Thank you, thank you, thank you so very much, I am gobsmacked by your amazing generosity and so grateful. If you are honestly really sure then yes please x100, I can't think of anyone I would rather she went to.

I hope you got my pm, lots more detail and I'm afraid emotion there.

I am honestly crying with relief and amazement that someone would be so generous and kind to a complete stranger. Thank you.

Serious, yes. I replied to your PM so call me tomorrow and we can work it all out.

Breathe, stop crying, make a strong drink....or if you're like me, a cup of tea, my current is peppermint with honey and let your tummy and heart calm down. I totally understand the posts about destroying the foal. It's not something I could ever do and I hate the idea of it, but anyone who reads the link in my sig will know that being responsible for the big problem means making tough decisions in individual cases, so to those condemning the people that have made those suggestions, please try not to be hard on them for it.

 

[Redders]

Oh my word! This has turned into one of the most heartwarming posts I have read!! The generosity from GG is astounding and enough to restore faith in us humans, and the desperation of the OP to try to do the right thing is clear. I am so glad that she posted on here, and hope the solution works out, as I'm sure it will. Good luck guys!

 

[OldNag]

Oh my word! This has turned into one of the most heartwarming posts I have read!! The generosity from GG is astounding and enough to restore faith in us humans, and the desperation of the OP to try to do the right thing is clear. I am so glad that she posted on here, and hope the solution works out, as I'm sure it will. Good luck guys!

^^ This. Just this.

 

[Landcruiser]

Faith in humanity restored......

 

[SunSeeker]

Nice one GG !
Best of luck to you both.
This will definitely be one to watch x

 

[Doormouse]

Thank you to everyone who has replied to this post. As you will now be aware the amazing GG has rescued us and we will keep you all up to date with the progress. She has most certainly restored my faith in humanity and her generosity is humbling.

To all those who were horrified, please don't think that I was anything other than horrified myself at the options. I can't think of anything crueller to a mare than aborting a foal deliberately especially at such an advanced stage or taking the foal away at birth.

However, I also believe that it is incredibly cruel to allow an animal to live that you know has an uncertain future, a future that you as an owner can guarantee even if it means making a terrible decision. Please try and imagine if someone came on here in 5 or 6 years time taking about a small pony they had rescued that had been beaten and starved and had dreadful behavioural problems, what would you say about the breeder / owner? Likely response would be that they were irresponsible. Suppose that was my foal, I would never forgive myself.

There are no rights or wrongs really but I was desperately trying to find the best and kindest solution for the long term.

We will keep you posted.

 

[Bigbenji]

I think I want to find GG and take her out for a drink or ten!

What a lovely offer and poor dormouse I bet you can actually breath now.

Honestly brought a tear to my eye.

 

[Kallibear]

OMG! I am horrified!!!! Murder a baby, come on WTF, we are meant to be horse lovers on here!!!
Before you ask yes it has happened to me, I did buy a mare, yes she was in foal. Yes she did give birth, was I scared, yes, was I worried, yes! What happened? Well I gained my horse of a lifetime that's what happened!
I am so glad that some sensible voices are now airing there view!!!
What a lovely story to tell a child, your pony gave birth and I killed the baby while you were at school! Some respect she will gain for the sanctity of life....yes melodramatic I know but I am really shocked!

Do you drink milk? Because that's exactly what happens to calves everyday all over the country. It's not worth raising a jersey bull calf etc.


I'm so pleased you've come to a happy conclusion however.

 

[luckyoldme]

Do you drink milk? Because that's exactly what happens to calves everyday all over the country. It's not worth raising a jersey bull calf etc.


I'm so pleased you've come to a happy conclusion however.

I was thinking the same thing...
I really hope gg s kind offer works out.
In all honesty i know long term i personally couldn t live with pts a new born foal. There again there are people who could live with that..and who am i to judge? I drink milk and im well aware of the fact that many of the calves are disposed of soon after birth.

 

[Stormynight]

In principle I couldn't agree more and also very cruel to the mare but the harsh reality is what life will that foal have? It will be unregistered, parentage on one side unknown, who would want it?.

Funnily enough my boy is unregistered, parentage unknown on both sides. I wanted him!

So glad there's a happy ending for this thread