BOGOF! Where do I stand on this and wwyd?

[Spilletta]

Thank you to everyone who has replied to this post. As you will now be aware the amazing GG has rescued us and we will keep you all up to date with the progress. She has most certainly restored my faith in humanity and her generosity is humbling.

To all those who were horrified, please don't think that I was anything other than horrified myself at the options. I can't think of anything crueller to a mare than aborting a foal deliberately especially at such an advanced stage or taking the foal away at birth.

However, I also believe that it is incredibly cruel to allow an animal to live that you know has an uncertain future, a future that you as an owner can guarantee even if it means making a terrible decision. Please try and imagine if someone came on here in 5 or 6 years time taking about a small pony they had rescued that had been beaten and starved and had dreadful behavioural problems, what would you say about the breeder / owner? Likely response would be that they were irresponsible. Suppose that was my foal, I would never forgive myself.

There are no rights or wrongs really but I was desperately trying to find the best and kindest solution for the long term.

We will keep you posted.

Good luck Doormouse, and well done for being strong enough to raise the question on the forum. You were in a lose/lose situation whichever way you went. Horrible to think of the abort/foal pts option, or horrible to think what could happen to a pony with an uncertain future. Sadly, it's the irresponsible people who allow this type of thing to happen in the first place that don't seem to suffer any horror at what misery they can cause. So glad that GG has been able to stop the misery in this case.

 

[sarahann1]

I appear to have watery eyes this morning...

Sorry you've ended up in such a difficult situation OP, good on you for your reasoned replies to all the questions and judgements. You sound like a fabulous owner/mum.

GG what a lovely thing to do, I hope it all works out for you both and hope we get some pictures all being well

 

[*hic*]

Presumably plenty of you have been assuming that pts the foal is what I'd do myself. It isn't. As some noticed it was a response to the purely practical issues raised, one of which was that the OP's daughter hadn't anything to ride.

I have at mine a perfect child's pony, she's kicking her heels doing nothing, she's an older lady and won't be wanting to jump although she has taught plenty of tiny children to ride. If there is some way of getting her down to the OP then OP and her daughter are very welcome to borrow her whilst OP's own pony is out of action. Perhaps she could be got to _GG_'s for a straight swap. Is there anyone available to help with any stages of travelling from Peterborough to the West Country? Anyone going in that direction in the near future? She's a Section A and adores travelling.

 

[AmyMay]

Good luck Doormouse.

GG ♥♥♥♥♥

 

[Montyforever]

This thread has made my day!
Faith in humanity definitely restored, please keep us up to date!

 

[Jericho]

Serious, yes. I replied to your PM so call me tomorrow and we can work it all out.

Breathe, stop crying, make a strong drink....or if you're like me, a cup of tea, my current is peppermint with honey and let your tummy and heart calm down. I totally understand the posts about destroying the foal. It's not something I could ever do and I hate the idea of it, but anyone who reads the link in my sig will know that being responsible for the big problem means making tough decisions in individual cases, so to those condemning the people that have made those suggestions, please try not to be hard on them for it.

GG - you are an amazingly wonderful generous person. Hope this all works out for everyone involved

 

[Jericho]

Presumably plenty of you have been assuming that pts the foal is what I'd do myself. It isn't. As some noticed it was a response to the purely practical issues raised, one of which was that the OP's daughter hadn't anything to ride.

I have at mine a perfect child's pony, she's kicking her heels doing nothing, she's an older lady and won't be wanting to jump although she has taught plenty of tiny children to ride. If there is some way of getting her down to the OP then OP and her daughter are very welcome to borrow her whilst OP's own pony is out of action. Perhaps she could be got to _GG_'s for a straight swap. Is there anyone available to help with any stages of travelling from Peterborough to the West Country? Anyone going in that direction in the near future? She's a Section A and adores travelling.

Another lovely lovely person. Well done!

 

[sula]

Oh wow, this is so heartwarming and so restorative to faith in the human condition. It`s been a hard theme to follow and I`m sure few of us really know what we would do in the same situation. We can think we do but really?

Doormouse, utter respect to you for raising such a reasoned, heartwrenching subject which must have exacted a terrible emotional cost to you. And GG and jemima* askin, just WOW. When I meet with the witch this afternoon I will recall this kindness and it will restore my belief in human kindness and help me through.

A multitude of blessings to each of you - can`t wait to read the updates!

 

[NellRosk]

I've just read all of this thread and whilst I completely agree with what posters were saying I was saddened with the whole gist of it. And then GG came along! This forum is a better place for having you here, thank you xx

 

[Caramac71]

Doormouse, I am so sorry for your predicament, but ... WOW! what an amazing outcome to this thread! The compassion and generosity on this forum is incredible at times. What lovely people you are

 

[Doormouse]

Presumably plenty of you have been assuming that pts the foal is what I'd do myself. It isn't. As some noticed it was a response to the purely practical issues raised, one of which was that the OP's daughter hadn't anything to ride.

I have at mine a perfect child's pony, she's kicking her heels doing nothing, she's an older lady and won't be wanting to jump although she has taught plenty of tiny children to ride. If there is some way of getting her down to the OP then OP and her daughter are very welcome to borrow her whilst OP's own pony is out of action. Perhaps she could be got to _GG_'s for a straight swap. Is there anyone available to help with any stages of travelling from Peterborough to the West Country? Anyone going in that direction in the near future? She's a Section A and adores travelling.

That is the most incredibly kind and generous offer and I would be beyond grateful if you really would be happy to let us have your pony as a stand in. I am quite overcome by the generosity of first GG and now yourself, thank you so very much.

I will pm you if that is ok?

 

[Jenna1406]

WOW! What an offer _GG_! I take my hat off to you, not many decent people like yourself about now adays

 

[Doormouse]

Jemima*askin I've tried to pm you but your inbox is full.

 

[*hic*]

That is the most incredibly kind and generous offer and I would be beyond grateful if you really would be happy to let us have your pony as a stand in. I am quite overcome by the generosity of first GG and now yourself, thank you so very much.

I will pm you if that is ok?

That's fine. She's a good girl.

 

[_GG_]

That's fine. She's a good girl.

Ah, what a lovely thing to do and taking away all the stress of Doormouse having to look for one

Well, I can set up a stable here for whenever, so hopefully some transport can be arranged and Doormouse will only have one trip to make. Despite having to make up a bed on the sofa at 2am after my little Stig was sick literally over 50% of our bed, it is very very lovely to wake up to a problem hopefully solved for Doormouse

By the way, I saw pictures last night and what an amazing pair the pony and daughter make...I almost spontaneously combusted from cuteness overload. I haven't been that affected by pony pictures since the Christmas pictures of Gizmo were posted

 

[sula]

As ever, I wish we had a `like` option on here!

 

[misskk88]

My faith in people has been swiftly and utterly restored. What kind people GG and Jemima*Askin are.

ETA- So glad to read a potentially very happy outcome for all!

 

[fatpiggy]

Nor me.

What a completely hideous suggestion.

Where in the country are you. Is there a H&H member that can help you out here with foaling facilities?

It happens with other species every day of the year and no-one bats an eyelid because it doesn't cross their mind. Thousands of bull calves born to dairy cows are shot at birth because they are of no financial use. A friend of mine bred goats ( a rare breed) for showing and milk production. Unfortunately as with many animals, more male babies are born than females and her neighbouring fellow goat-keeper would take the billy kids within 24 hours and dispose of them for her.

The poor OP is between a rock and a hard place. She needs practical suggestions, not sentimental ones.

 

[Palindrome]

Glad to hear everything is sorted

Someone had a BOGOF from a pony at the previous yard I was at and I was the 1st one at the yard the morning the filly was born. I will always remember that day as one of the best of my life as I helped the filly warm up and nurse. It was the mare's first foal and she didn't know what to do. I was myself over 6 month pregnant so probably even more emotional.

A foal is something to be treasured, no matter his commercial value or breeding papers. A wee section A cross is not worth much money but will probably be as cheap as chips to keep. Good luck to everyone, sounds like a great story in the making.

 

[Orangehorse]

That is a very, very kind offer. The perfect solution.

 

[DJ]

How wonderful to see HH members to the rescue once again, I do love how amazing this forum can be. Well done GG, you are an angel x

 

[_GG_]

Glad to hear everything is sorted

Someone had a BOGOF from a pony at the previous yard I was at and I was the 1st one at the yard the morning the filly was born. I will always remember that day as one of the best of my life as I helped the filly warm up and nurse. It was the mare's first foal and she didn't know what to do. I was myself over 6 month pregnant so probably even more emotional.

A foal is something to be treasured, no matter his commercial value or breeding papers. A wee section A cross is not worth much money but will probably be as cheap as chips to keep. Good luck to everyone, sounds like a great story in the making.

Well, filly or colt, it will have a life with me forever. I have never actually sold a horse. Molly was gifted to the eventers that have her now, but I will take her back if ever needs be. The weanlings I get next year and this little BOGOF will just have a happy upbringing and then be started by a very good (and small) friend of mine and have lives of being loaned to loving homes. We did it with Mischief when we outgrew him and he had a great life, helping lots of little ones to learn how to ride and then came back to retire.

So...in about 5 years time when they have all had enough exposure and are safe little mounts, I'll be on here letting you all know

 

[Palindrome]

It happens with other species every day of the year and no-one bats an eyelid because it doesn't cross their mind. Thousands of bull calves born to dairy cows are shot at birth because they are of no financial use. A friend of mine bred goats ( a rare breed) for showing and milk production. Unfortunately as with many animals, more male babies are born than females and her neighbouring fellow goat-keeper would take the billy kids within 24 hours and dispose of them for her.

The poor OP is between a rock and a hard place. She needs practical suggestions, not sentimental ones.

Are you sure about the calves? I have read that they are now sold for meat when old enough.
Personally it does cross my mind and I would find it very disturbing but that would be commercial pressure, common sense would dictate to use the animals for meat. I am sure the goats or cows can give enough milk for the kids/calves and for people's use, although of course the productivity is lessened.
It is something I have thought about and I think we need a bit more clarity about what is going on. I'd happily pay more for milk that I know has been produced with the welfare of calves in mind.

 

[Doormouse]

 

[_GG_]

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Wagtail]

Well if you want a purely practical solution to the problem your daughter is tiny, she's going to be walking and trotting only and weighs nothing so she could keep riding right up until just before delivery - you're hardly going to have a tot out for hours at a time. Then as the foal turns up have it pts and dry the mare off. It's not the most pleasant solution but it's probably the cheapest, assuming nothing goes wrong with the foaling and keeps your daughter riding.

OMG! What a horrible thing to do. It has really upset me even thinking about it, not least for what it would do to the poor pony that has tried her heart out for the OP and her young daughter.

 

[fatpiggy]

Are you sure about the calves? I have read that they are now sold for meat when old enough.
Personally it does cross my mind and I would find it very disturbing but that would be commercial pressure, common sense would dictate to use the animals for meat. I am sure the goats or cows can give enough milk for the kids/calves and for people's use, although of course the productivity is lessened.
It is something I have thought about and I think we need a bit more clarity about what is going on. I'd happily pay more for milk that I know has been produced with the welfare of calves in mind.

This is why the the powers that be are trying to restart veal production. Personally I won't eat veal on principal because of the traditional management of veal calves. A bull calf born to dairy parents is never going to make the bulk/weight that a specialist beef species bull calf will so the farmer is feeding it at considerable expense in time and money for not much of a final price at market. A bullet costs less, sadly. I'm sure many smaller-scale farmers do let the calf live and get what they can for it, but the big boys with super-herds and over-zealous accountants sure as heck won't.

 

[Wagtail]

I have just replied via pm, very long and emotional I'm afraid.

Thank you, thank you, thank you so very much, I am gobsmacked by your amazing generosity and so grateful. If you are honestly really sure then yes please x100, I can't think of anyone I would rather she went to.

I hope you got my pm, lots more detail and I'm afraid emotion there.

I am honestly crying with relief and amazement that someone would be so generous and kind to a complete stranger. Thank you.

Fabulous! What a lovely thing for _GG_ to do xx

 

[fatpiggy]

OP. If it helps, I've known some cracking foals come out of bog-offs so don't be certain that yours will come out looking like Frankenstein! As to size, well I know a section A that was caught by a registered Welsh D and the foal ended up about 13hh. The naughty boy also caught a 14.2hh showjumping pony and that foal ended up at just around 15hh. Both were maiden mares. A vet told me that the mother regulates the foal size and unless there is a huge disparity between the size of the parents, things are generally just fine, if not nature steps in and causes a miscarriage.

 

[exmoorponyprincess1]

What a wonderful thread - beautiful pony (and I'm not usually a fan of little welshies!!) and such generous offers from HHOers to make a very stressful situation for OP pretty much disappear! Looking forward to progress updates!