bolting and double reins?

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iloveCharlie5

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Hey,
My mare has been a little whizzy lately; we recently got her COPD sorted for good, so she's feeling very good in herself lately! She has bolted a few times with me in the school; I have simply turned her and she has listened and come back to me. She is not in pain or scared at all. She's a very strong horse and is on the forehand a lot, so that makes her seem stronger still. I am a young teenager and quite little for my age, and she's a 15hh cob cross, just to put it into perspective. Her bolting in the school doest worry me because I know I can stop her, it only frustrates me because this is the fourth time she has done it. I hacked her today and I could feel her ready to bolt as soon as we went into trot; she was at the front of the group with no challengers so there was no reason for her behaviour. My instructor, who is well respected in the horse world and has over 40 years of experience under her belt, is very keen to put her in a pelham with double reins. I was at first adamant to her staying in her snaffle, but J (my instructor/mentor) has won me over and I have agreed to put her in a pelham. She wore one with her old owners for CC and showjumping as she gets strong. Let me just mention she is 16 years old! :)
I have never ridden with double reins so am slightly nervous, any tips or advice at all with the bolting and/OR the double reins????
Thanks,
Kat :)
 
Tbh it sound like she needs more schooling rather than a bigger bit. As you said yourself she's on her forehand it sounds like she's leaning on you and running and the more you pull on her the more she's leaning.
Lots of transitions and lighter hands with circles and halts would help.
Just cos she's 16 doesn't mean you can't improve her flat work now.
 
Firstly, people may jump on your definition of 'bolt' as the horse is not out of control, but I know what you mean!

Some people think a Pelham is a harsh bit, but it isn't really if used properly, and I would much rather people had to use a different bit than be hauling on a snaffle to stop (which I'm sure you don't mean to do but sometimes you're at a loss I know) so double reins are good because you are riding with one rein the majority of the time, and only using the second rein when you really need it. Some people even have the second rein knotted on the horses neck so they literally only pick it up in a needing to stop situation.

Since your instructor is encouraging you to try this I am sure they won't just expect you to know how to use them and will show you! I am not sure I can remember really myself but planning to use them again one day soon!
 
Putting a pelham on her may give you more control when she tries to take off but will not address the reason for it or really help you improve her schooling.
I would concentrate on getting her listening to you more, working to bring her off her forehand and give her more to do so she does not feel the need to run, she does not sound as if she is really bolting if you are able to bring her back fairly quickly or prevent it happening.
Plenty of transitions, encourage her to flex her neck, stretch down and lift her back, once she is really listening and working correctly there will be less time for her to be thinking of being naughty.
Maybe cut back her feed if she is getting any, or change it, check her teeth and back are not causing any discomfort.
 
What she is doing is not bolting (that is something far more scary) she is just taking off and ignoring you.

I agree with schooling, but your instructor probably just wants you to have some emergency brakes.

I have ridden my oldie for 30 years in a Pelham, he is very prone to taking off. It is easy enough to learn I am sure your instructor will help.

The big problem I found was that usually two plain leather reins are used, the top being thicker than the bottom. If your horse really goes it is often difficult to actually get any grip on these and they can be pulled through your fingers.

I swapped the one rein to a continental web rein with the sewn on leather bits. I find this helps with the problem.

When hacking I usually ride on a very long rein and only use the Pelham when necessary.

Be warned though, if my oldie really goes for it, nothing will stop him.
 
Firstly, its not bolting, its tanking or running off. And although nothing wrong with pelhams, it sounds like a schooling problem, not a bitting one.
 
In reply to almost everyone's relplies, there have been times when it really has been bolting, not just tanking off or not listening! She has had a lot of schooling in her time and is rather experienced at dressage and flatwork, so really this isn't a problem. The problem is that she just doesn't listen to me at all since she is really strong compared to my size! We have been getting lessons from a very well respected and experienced dressage rider since we got her, she has been getting much less on the forehand and so I don't understand why this problem has been occuring lately :(
Thank you everone for your advice, its really appreciated! :)
Kat
 
As others have said, she is hooking off with you, not bolting and there is nothing wrong with a pelham!

When you are riding her in the arena, providing that the fence is high enough, use that to stop her!

One horse I had who thought that canter was a reason to tank off. The instructor I had at the time made life very easy. I had to canter in the top corner of the arena, canter down the long side and use the bottom corner to stop. turn the horse to the outside and as soon as his head was straight to the side canter back to the top corner and repeat.

He soon stopped hooking off.
 
It would be good to get to the bottom of what is causing this behaviour, in order to find the most effective fix. Does she do it with other riders? Do you have any bad habits in your riding? How often is she worked, and doing what for how long? You say she is not in pain but may I ask how you know that? What has been checked and by whom? Does she do it with a certain schooling movement? Does she only do it in the school, or only at one end? Is she just as likely to do it at the beginning of a schooling session as the end?

Has anyone other than your instructor assessed the behaviour?

What other tack are you using on her?

A pelham may well result in the behaviour either not occuring (in which case perhaps it is the action of the snaffle she is objecting to) or being controllable, but do introduce it in a lesson with someone who can teach you about how to use two reins.
 
Your second post confirms its a schooling issue imo. Your size & strength shouldn't be the main reason you struggle to stay in control, its irrelevant really. And it doesn't matter what she's done in the past, at present she isn't well schooled if she's on the forehand & using her strength. In your situation I think a pelham would work short term, then she'd just get stronger in response & you'd be back to square one again. And if it was a true bolt, a pelham wouldn't make a bit of difference, because you don't stop a bolter.
 
Just because she's done flatwork in the past does't mean she can't be disobedient, also if she isn't kept up to speed with that sort of work then you can't expect it to last forever!

How is her behaviour with you in general? Is she pushing the boundries when you handle her or generally ride her? Does she lead politely or does she try to wander off? When you ride does she do things the first time you ask or do you have to repeat yourself (that includes moving forward as well as slowing down)? From what you've said I really think she's choosing to ignore you, or listen only when it suits her, rather than bolting - you won't turn a bolter - & I'd be very surprised if the same attitude isn't showing in other areas. You need a consistent approach & stamp on every sign of it. And please don't
use your relative sizes as an excuse - she isn't going to get smaller & you're not going to get bgger so you need to either find a way of coping or find a more suitable horse.

Since your RI suggested the pelham I'd ask her to show you how to use double reins, but they're quite easy once you've got the knack.
 
It sounds like great advice to me and it's good to learn how to use double riens it a skill that's you can tick off once you have mastered it.
You just need practice , use a normal width rien on the top ring of the Pelham and a thin curb rien on the bottom to reduce the bulk in your hands.
 
Goldenstar said:
It sounds like great advice to me and it's good to learn how to use double riens it a skill that's you can tick off once you have mastered it.
You just need practice , use a normal width rien on the top ring of the Pelham and a thin curb rien on the bottom to reduce the bulk in your hands.
Click to expand...

Same here, a pelham is not a backward step at all, a snaffle can be lethal in the wrong hands and I'm surprised that so many think all horses should go in snaffles, that's ridiculous. Your mare seems to have learnt that she's only got a flyweight on her back so is taking advantage and thinks she can have some fun with you so she needs something that you are happy you can control her in; a pelham could be just the thing. You could also look at a kimblewick (a shorter shafted version of a pelham) which only has one rein.
I was taught to practise with double reins in the tack room until I was happy I could shorten and lengthen them in my sleep in the bat of an eyelid (I was ten, everyone rode in either snaffles, pelhams or doubles then so some even learnt to ride from the start with double reins; it wasn't the sin it seems to be nowadays! :rolleyes:)
 
As Maesfen! And also as others have said. Have the snaffle rein thicker than the curb rein - for less bulk but also so that, till you get the knack, you can tell which is which - and if you feel at first you can't cope with two sets of reins, knot the curb rein on your horse's neck.

Also, learn (if you don't already do so) to ride with one hand, so the second hand can be used to 'adjust the brakes'.

Tanking off is unpleasant (not bolting, which is a flat-out maddened gallop in an inappropriate place in my book), and I do sympathise, as I too have a tanker! But you can overome it, and you sound as if you have a good and sympathetic instructor. I am always humbled by the memory of a cob, bought for me as a very thin, tall sub-teenager. That cob really did bolt, as well as tanking off. It became obvious he and I were unsuited to each other. My 70-year old father then took him over as his hunting cob; to my rage he proceeded to have 12 seasons' marvellous hunting on him, riding in a double bridle but with the reins never tighter than a sagging washing line. The horse never took off with him; my father just used his seat and a "Whoa, little man!" It is confidence, as well as schooling.

All the best, from one tanker to another....
 
Safety first, so if your instructor suggests a Pelham go for it. I had a horse who would tank. ( and I agree with the others, your horse is tanking and taking the mickey, a bolter will literally run into walls and is in complete panic mode)

So, use a Pelham , suprising no one has suggested you use roundings to start with as that is easier. Once you have more control, then you can go back to schooling in a snaffle. My tanker would just pee off around an indoor school , flat out and out of control. A change of instructor, a change of bit for a while and he learnt he could not do this. He ended up in a loose ring schooling and flat, dr Bristol for Showjumping, but Pelham for hunting, winter hacking and XC.

Most of my horses have had to be in different bits for different jobs and that's fine. No big deal!
 
Probably because roundings defeat the purpose of a pelham. And imo if someone's riding is of a level that they can't learn to use two reins, which isn't exactly really difficult, they have no rights to be using a pelham. (not aimed at you op, its just something I don't like).
 
I don't think the OP was looking for all the experts on bolting to define the term "bolting" for her - what it is or isn't. Comments to that effect are not very helpful, and they are demeaning, and they trivialize the problems that the OP is experiencing.

The OP is asking if a Pelham will help to gain more control. Maybe if people could stick to the original questions, the OP might gain some useful advice from this thread.
 
Be assured that no matter what size you are, if a horse really wants to tank off there is B**ger all strength has to do with it - every horse is bigger and stronger than we are. Many cobs go better in a curb action bit, and it helps with getting them back off the forehand too, if you know what you're doing.
 
littlelegs said:
Probably because roundings defeat the purpose of a pelham. And imo if someone's riding is of a level that they can't learn to use two reins, which isn't exactly really difficult, they have no rights to be using a pelham. (not aimed at you op, its just something I don't like).
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Bit harsh? It doesn't defeat the object of a pelham, it can reduce it depnding on how you ride with them.

My OH has a new horse which does this so we've put him in a pelham with roundings as a first step so OH doesn't have to negotiate new horse/learning/double reins. I'm pleased to report it has worked and when he decided he wanted to go home faster than I did I was able to turn and stop him much easier than the snaffle/dutch gag we'd tried previously. I agree it is a schooling issue, but for safety's sake I'd rather he was hacked out in something you could stop him in for the time being and then go back down to a snaffle if/when appropriate. It also means he won't have to ruin his mouth trying to pull him up in a snaffle.
 
Firstly agree with the others. Your Horse is not bolting. He is tanking. The fact you say you can turn him suggests this, also you know he will stop. Deffiently tanking. Take it from someone who has ridden a true bolter, there is a huge difference.

Secondly, I would go for the stronger bit, however it would be a short term solution only. I would then concentrate on my schooling and using her seat to slow your Horse down. Then gradually go back to a snaffle.
 
Not harsh at all. Two reins mean you can ride with the snaffle as main rein, only using curb when needed. Roundings mean you lose the ability to use them independently, instead you are using both all the time. And I maintain anyone with skill that entitles them to use a curb should be able to grasp using two reins without difficulty. I've taught under 10's how to do so, it really is something that is simple to learn imo.
 
ndiamo, I don't think any of us were trying to put down the questioner. Far from it. But you address a bolter in a very different way to the way you do a tanker. And a pelham will make no difference to a bolter. It may well do to a tanker.
 
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