border collie has dislocated his leg...

smokey

smokey

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Hardly ever post here, but this is a 'proper' dog post, so here goes...
Our 7yr old collie badly needed grilled, bathed, trimmed and claws clipped. I have a colleague who is a qualified dog groomer, and mashed offered to do him. Met her at work Tuesday morning and handed him over. She then contacted me at about 1pm to say he was done, and I went ti meet her.
He got out of the car, and I asked if he was ok, as he can be difficult when being brushed etc. She said no, he was perfect.
She then asked if he was lame, as he was holding his near back leg funny.
He hadn't been, but I picked it up and checked his paw for stones etc. Nothing. Put him in my car and drove two miles up the road. He got out the car on 3 legs. Vet thought it was soft tissue, and he may have pulled it.
Fast forward to today. He's still on 3 legs, and after xrays, yes, it is out. Ligament is also bust. He needs surgery, (£1k-£2k depending on procedure)
Will ask the groomer if anything happened, but am not sure that will solve the mystery.
So, a question? How much trauma would it take to cause that much damage to a fit healthy dog? Could he have just slipped and done it? My son is convinced 'something' has happened at the groomers.
I can ill afford this bill, but obviously it has to be paid, just really upset that this has happened, and no one knows how.
 
Question- when it dislocates, there is surely an immediate reaction to pain, and inability to weight bear? My dog was fine apart from holding his leg a bit to the side, walked on it and jumped into my car. Got out after 5 minutes hopping lame. I just don't see how he could have done that?
 
Years ago my whippet dislocated her shoulder playing chase with my other whippet - as easy as you like. She did scream and show instant pain, but I would not be surprised at the symptoms your collie showed at all
 
I've known two dogs dislocate, one was hit by a car and the other was a high impact but the dog had no hips and there was very little they could do :/
I've seen a lot of dogs go into a cage or car and come out on three legs.
 
Friend has a border collie who did it repeatedly, £500 a time to put it back. They have now removed the hip joint completely and is a miracle, you would simply never know that the dog's leg isn't really attached to his body!

If there is a risk of repeat, then I'd go straight for joint removal if your vet thinks it's a good idea.
 
When mine dislocated her hip during a freak rotational fall it was immediately obvious, the leg appeared whole inches shorter and she couldn't have borne any weight on it. Unusually it went back in easily and has stayed in, though she later did the cruciate on the same leg.

Cruciates are an odd thing. I have also seen dogs blow a cruciate with hardly any cause including one who jumped off a low chair in the vet clinic waiting room, while waiting to see the vet for something completely unrelated, landed screaming on three legs and ended up having surgery for it a couple of weeks later.
 
ycbm said:
Friend has a border collie who did it repeatedly, £500 a time to put it back. They have now removed the hip joint completely and is a miracle, you would simply never know that the dog's leg isn't really attached to his body!

If there is a risk of repeat, then I'd go straight for joint removal if your vet thinks it's a good idea.
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I think that's the way we will go. Re assuring to know it's as easy as that to do, I couldn't understand how easily he had apparently done it.
 
ycbm said:
Friend has a border collie who did it repeatedly, £500 a time to put it back. They have now removed the hip joint completely and is a miracle, you would simply never know that the dog's leg isn't really attached to his body!

If there is a risk of repeat, then I'd go straight for joint removal if your vet thinks it's a good idea.
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We had a lakeland terrier who dislocated his own hip to get into a hole after a fox. After the dig out he was a cripple and he had the joint top removed, like you suggest. Amazing recovery and as he got old and his muscle tone dropped off it flapped a bit but never gave him any pain.
I would have thought it would have taken a bit of effort for the OP's dog to dislocate a joint, but I suppose that depends how good his joints are? As the truth will never be known I would just try to move on.
 
smokey said:
I think that's the way we will go. Re assuring to know it's as easy as that to do, I couldn't understand how easily he had apparently done it.
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Well it took Buddy a few months to strengthen up and get used to it, and a few swimming sessions, but when I see him running around now I can't believe that his leg is only held on by soft tissue. You really can't see any difference between the leg that has a hip and the one that doesn't.

I was there when he dislocated it one day. All he was doing was coming down three steps he's done a million times in his life. He screamed horribly and was on three legs immediately.

He's s pet, not a worker, so he wasn't especially fit before the operation.

Hope that helps.
 
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Have to say Id be going back to the groomer and saying my dog was sound when it went in, lame when it came out.. they will hold insurnace for injuries and it sounds like there was no problems before the grooming..
 
CorvusCorax said:
I take it the dog was groomed on a table?
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Yes, I have spoken ti the groomer. She lifted him on and off. He jumped onto her sofa and lay down to wait to come home, was fine, but she did say she thought his leg was a bit "off" she had never met him, so assumed that was just how he was. He wasn't sore, but she mentioned it to me.
Vet thinks he has dine some soft tissue and ligament damage on Tuesday, and weakened the joint. He has probably then popped it turning, or miving awkwardly. It def wasn't out on Tuesday, so we're going to assume that's the case. We'll never know how he did it, but at least its fixable. Vet discussing options on Monday. It looks like he's going to be a one hipped dog..
 
SusieT said:
Have to say Id be going back to the groomer and saying my dog was sound when it went in, lame when it came out.. they will hold insurnace for injuries and it sounds like there was no problems before the grooming..
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As I've said, we don't know how he did it, he could have pulled it or caught it getting into the car. He may have hurt it earlier in the day and we just didn't notice. I'm not going to lay blame when I have no proof, and she has assured me nothing untoward happened while he was there.
 
ycbm said:
Well it took Buddy a few months to strengthen up and get used to it, and a few swimming sessions, but when I see him running around now I can't believe that his leg is only held on by soft tissue. You really can't see any difference between the leg that has a hip and the one that doesn't.

I was there when he dislocated it one day. All he was doing was coming down three steps he's done a million times in his life. He screamed horribly and was on three legs immediately.

He's s pet, not a worker, so he wasn't especially fit before the operation.

Hope that helps.
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Very reassuring, thank you. Think this will be the solution for us as well. Mutt is currently off his face on tramadol! 😁
 
Quick update, the mutt is, as previously stated, off his chops on medication. This has slowed him down to rug impersonator status. He has moved once today, reluctantly. I noticed that when he did walk, he is attempting to weight bear. Does anyone know if with total rest there is a chance that the tissue damage would repair sufficiently to attempt manipulation again? I think I know the answer, but just want to cover all bases before resorting ti major surgery.
We think the joint came out after the initial injury, because he didn't rest it, so wondering if now he is zonked, the damage might have a chance to heal?
Obviously I will be speaking to the vet, but over the weekend just researching and learning.
 
Quick update- the vet has agreed to giving him a chance to heal. Taking him in on Friday and the will attempt to put the joint back in before going ahead with an operation. In the meantime, his meds are to be kept topped up at all times, and he is to be encouraged to be still.
 
My staffy dislocated hers but then she was hit by a car! It never healed right and she still hobbles about on three legs in trot but walks ok, but vet said its because the ligaments healed wrong cause shes so old and has poor healing anyway, her actual hip is fine. All ill say is make sure it heals, then do lots of water physio etc.
 
equi said:
My staffy dislocated hers but then she was hit by a car! It never healed right and she still hobbles about on three legs in trot but walks ok, but vet said its because the ligaments healed wrong cause shes so old and has poor healing anyway, her actual hip is fine. All ill say is make sure it heals, then do lots of water physio etc.
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If the vet can't put it back in on Friday, he will be having the joint removed asap. I don't want him in pain, but equally want to give him a chance before surgery. He isn't in pain at the moment, but is quite settled, and comfortable. Hopefully a week of rest will do the trick.
 
amymay said:
He has to wait In to Friday before the dislocation is put back?
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He originally had soft tissue damage, and a damaged ligament. The hip came out after, and the muscle damage meant the joint was unstable and wouldn't stay in place. He popped the hip because he insisted on trying to act like he wasn't hurt 😁. The vet has agreed that since his meds are now keeping him calm and resting, the soft tissue damage may mend enough to have another go at re setting the joint. He is not in pain, and is resting most of the day. We agreed to try this before going straight to major surgery. If he shows any sign of distress or pain, he will be back at the vet before Friday.


Just noticed you asked if he is to wait 'in' amymay. He's not an in patient, he's home with us, sleeping in his bed in my sons room.
 
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I dont usually like to comment on these things....but how long has the hip been out? IF its less then 48 hours and you have the finances I would strongly advise you seek a second opinion on this from someone who does orthopedics if your trying to avoid surgery.The longer a dislocation is left out the less likely it can be replaced.
 
Aru said:
I dont usually like to comment on these things....but how long has the hip been out? IF its less then 48 hours and you have the finances I would strongly advise you seek a second opinion on this from someone who does orthopedics if your trying to avoid surgery.The longer a dislocation is left out the less likely it can be replaced.
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The advice I have been given has come after my vet spoke to orthopaedics. The leg wouldn't hold in the joint when they tried under ga to manipulate it. He was sent home with pain relief and we were advised to keep him resting as much as possible. The plan was originally to operate early this week, but given that he now is resting properly, it was decided to give him a chance to mend and try again to re locate the joint. If that doesn't work, he will be straight to surgery for removal of the joint.
 
SusieT said:
Have to say Id be going back to the groomer and saying my dog was sound when it went in, lame when it came out.. they will hold insurnace for injuries and it sounds like there was no problems before the grooming..
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The vet I work for would say:

"two things happened. Your dog got groomed. Your dog became ill/lame. They are not mutually exclusive."
 
Apologies then I must have skimmed read this earlier and missed that it had already been replaced and its failed to stay put. That does change things. Apologies Op I should have read more carefully.

The issue is the chances of being able to return a dislocation into the joint once its been out a certain amount of time reduce's. When the hip joint capsule is left empty,without the head of the femur filling it, it often fills with residues,byproducts and blood from the damaged cells around it meaning it isn't always an empty hole to just slot the bone back into if its left dislocated. The longer its left the less likely it is that the bone can go back in with manipulation alone.

However its a catch 22. If the hip has no structural support, in the form of soft tissue and muscle, in place to hold the bone in place,then even if the joint capsule is still empty, and with the special sling bandaging in place, it may continue to dislocate because theres no external support holding it in, the inner ligament that connects the bone to the pelvis has already snapped before or when it originally dilocated. So its another g.a that may have the same result as the first.

So giving a few days to allow some of this traumatised tissue to heal and hoping for the best does make sense if its already failed to hold once shortly after the initial trauma.
Plus if it wont hold in the socket at all and you need to take off the head of the femor at least some of the area will already be repairing to provide support for the leg.

I don't think the groomer can necessarily be blamed to be honest or at least it sounds unlikely to be due to a serious incident there.
She mentioned the lameness casually on pick up and didn't try any deception by the sounds of things and at the time you were able pick up the leg and check it...generally they don't like you doing that when its freshly dislocated, unless they are a very stoic animal, as its quite painful.

Although dislocated hips are most commonly seen with hit by car trauma, sometimes they do also happen in the strangest of presentations..on the way back from the walk,after a misstep coming up or down stairs,in a fall etc.
It rarely occurs in a jump as the front feet take most of the impact...but a misstep on the stairs seems to be a big one...however most of those dogs turned out to have slightly abnormal hips which is why they luxate relatively easily once the internal ligaments damaged..Did you vet mention if the sockets look normal on x-rays? If theres a shallow socket present, once the little inner ligament tying the top of the femur into the hip socket is damaged its not that difficult to pop a hip and it can be tricky to make them stay put.

If you own dogs this is sadly one of those cases where somethings bad things happen at the worse times imaginable!

Poor boy though! hopefully he will be one of the lucky ones that just decided to go back in and stay put though.
Worse case scenario the FHO has a pretty good success rate for getting dogs back to their normal function. its amazing how well dogs cope with these things sometimes.
 
A lot of the groomers I know use a sort of noose type arrangement on the table with little ropes around various bits of the dog at various times in order to encourage them to stand still in useful positions for whatever bit is being groomed. It seems to me entirely possible that a dog pulling against such a thing (or indeed wriggling in manual constraints) could dislocate a hip. Even more so if it attempted to jump down form the table whilst still partially attached or similar.

I would imagine that, if going to a groomer, the dog was being stripped or having long term matting or similar dealt with? Ie something more uncomfortable than regular bathing that OP would tend to do at home? Hence more likely to need some form of restraint/do more wriggling...

That doesn't of course mean that the groomer necessarily did anything wrong or that, even if they feel they did, they will contribute to vets fees.

If the money was an issue for you and you thought the groomer had either professional insurance (would hope so!) or the ability to pay something then I might just contact them again and give an update on the dog/how the treatment is going and say you were wondering if they'd be in a position to help you out given that whatever happened happened in their care. Obviously if you have insurance that would make a difference. Or if the money isn't really an issue for you/not enough of an issue to cause an awkward convo that is different.
 
GirlFriday said:
A lot of the groomers I know use a sort of noose type arrangement on the table with little ropes around various bits of the dog at various times in order to encourage them to stand still in useful positions for whatever bit is being groomed. It seems to me entirely possible that a dog pulling against such a thing (or indeed wriggling in manual constraints) could dislocate a hip. Even more so if it attempted to jump down form the table whilst still partially attached or similar.
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I think you are referring to a "LIPSystem" which isn't meant to hold a dog in place, and should not be thought of or used for anything more than as a safety mechanism - ie a seat belt, or a harness for a window cleaner that does high rises etc. A dog still can move freely about the table but should not be able to fall or jump off or hang himself.

Injuries can and do happen in the salon. Some times they are injuries which were there, brewing away and only aggravated during the grooming process where the groomer is standing the dog this way and that, lifting legs (ie to clip nails and pads) and a dog which even might lose his balance somewhat may jerk his own leg back.

I had a dog that came in that I have groomed for years - all uneventfully. One day he wouldn't stand properly - he wasn't bad, just would not put his leg under himself to stand squarely. I mentioned it to the owner, who never noticed this very slight abnormality - but I did because I was asking the dog to do things that they don't.

Turns out he had a ruptured or slipped disc (I can't remember which, but he had a major back op at the university after an MRI). The owners were very grateful that I had showed this to them -- they said in retrospect that he had not been as keen to walk out lately, and wouldn't jump up on the step or whatever - but just put it down to old age.

They could have easily turned round and suggested that I caused this injury. I would have been gutted, knowing full well that this dog, and every dog I groom is groomed with care and attention to the WHOLE dog, not just his hair.

I don't know the groomer in question, could well be that something happened there and they don't want to own up. But I know a lot of groomers and none would not put their hand up and say if an accident occurred.
 
PucciNPoni said:
I think you are referring to a "LIPSystem" which isn't meant to hold a dog in place, and should not be thought of or used for anything more than as a safety mechanism - ie a seat belt, or a harness for a window cleaner that does high rises etc. A dog still can move freely about the table but should not be able to fall or jump off or hang himself.

Injuries can and do happen in the salon. Some times they are injuries which were there, brewing away and only aggravated during the grooming process where the groomer is standing the dog this way and that, lifting legs (ie to clip nails and pads) and a dog which even might lose his balance somewhat may jerk his own leg back.

I had a dog that came in that I have groomed for years - all uneventfully. One day he wouldn't stand properly - he wasn't bad, just would not put his leg under himself to stand squarely. I mentioned it to the owner, who never noticed this very slight abnormality - but I did because I was asking the dog to do things that they don't.

Turns out he had a ruptured or slipped disc (I can't remember which, but he had a major back op at the university after an MRI). The owners were very grateful that I had showed this to them -- they said in retrospect that he had not been as keen to walk out lately, and wouldn't jump up on the step or whatever - but just put it down to old age.

They could have easily turned round and suggested that I caused this injury. I would have been gutted, knowing full well that this dog, and every dog I groom is groomed with care and attention to the WHOLE dog, not just his hair.

I don't know the groomer in question, could well be that something happened there and they don't want to own up. But I know a lot of groomers and none would not put their hand up and say if an accident occurred.
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In answer to this, and the poster above, I have spoken to the griomer, and she has said that she noticed he was holding himself 'a bit funny' when he got out of her car, before he was ever even on the premises. I'm going to assume that he hurt himself getting in or out of the car, or with his lead on his morning walk, and that injury then led to the dislocation.
 
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