Brakes and bits! Sorry it will have been done before but...

[skewby]

Went to my first meet today, after a sticky start (cos I didn't have a clue and tried to keep horse at back, bad move) we had an absolute ball and I am dying to go again. My lad is a 16hh draught cross and has always been VERY forward going, he knows his own strength and sometimes takes the pee and generally fights the bit.

And aside from the brakes issue, he gets on his forehand and leans like hell, this isn't nice as you want to gallop and jump but the horse is so on his forehand you don't feel too safe!

Bits I have tried:

Pelham (had most success with this - used roundings, no brakes but could come away from a fun ride or fast hack without the ends of my fingers being blue, so I will try this again next time - not perfect tho)
Waterford (no effect, also horse hated it and moaned)
Bubble bit (on last ring - nada effect)

Basically he's run through the lot of them. Ideas for making him more polite? Thanks

 

[Irishcobs]

Try I cheltenham gag. It will lift his head and stop him going to much on the forehand.

What mouthpiece is the pelham?

 

[yeeharider]

deffo cheltenham gag with 2 reins so you can ride him on the snaffle if he is nice but have plenty of braking/lifting power if he is not happy hunting

 

[skewby]

Pelham is mullen, so mild (although a thin one)...I have another one, which is a waterford mouthpiece, but when I just tried it on him he had a fit!

Yes, I have been thinking Chelt gag. When I first had him he used to tank off, by putting his head up. The various bits turned it into putting his head down. Do you think this means he'll revert to that to evade, if I go for the CG?

I have to say, the only way the pelham had any effect, was if I tightened the curb to within an inch of its life.

 

[star]

i tried a CG on my horse on Sunday and he really didn't like it. It worked - I could stop him mid run but he was having proper temper tantrums - it's a very harsh bit. I had double reins on it but found them too much to juggle when his other habit is to yank them out of my hands. i'm going back to trying the pelham and roundings next time. had a kimblewick in last time and it didn't do anything.

 

[yeeharider]

as with lots of bits the cheltenham gag is only as harsh as the hands that use it it can be a very sensitive bit if used correctly light hands make good mouths

 

[deefor]

American Gag? ...I have posted in Stable yard .. looking for suggestions on whats milder, so it may work for you. Mine is straight bar happy mouth type and he accepted it v well, where as the C Gag ( jointed mouth piece) he argued hugely when brakes applied. I don't find he goes on his forehand too much, but it does just stop that build up of speed that can be dangerous on deep going, and also provides enough brakes to get him back before a trappy fence.

 

[yeeharider]

I use an american gag on my mare x country with good effect but have had to use it with roundings on as the slightest touch stopped her dead must admit though she does not drop onto her forehand as much in it

 

[JenHunt]

my lad sounds just like yours! ID x and thinks his idea is always best (even when it blatantly isnt!)
he hates the bubble bit (dutch gag) and the cheltenham, and the pelham - I tried a waterford and nearly got bronced off!!

double bridle however - goes like a dream....
the extra set of reins aren't a problem, I just set myself up and get going - plus the longer he's out for the better he gets - hoping to be back to my lovely snaffle after chrismas!

 

[Angelbones]

My late mare was very stacked up front and leaned dreadfully on the bit. That, coupled with be forward going and keen, was a nightmare. After lots of trials, we settled on the NS Universal lozenge bit, with the curb strap and it made a real difference. Although she still carried her head low, she didn't lean and I was able to just relax the reins and let her carry herself instead of me trying to lift her constantly. She respected it, and the day was manageable, and she didn't come home with a sore mouth like she had in all the others. Good luck!

 

[skewby]

Oh some great replies here, thank you all. I can see my having to try a few to find one that works! Up till now I have managed with a snaffle and kineton for fun rides and things, but this really isn't good enough for hunting. I couldn't check him to slow down or put him on his hocks at all, or keep a respectful distance from the horses in front. Everyone was incredibly forgiving as it was our first time, but I do need to sort it out.

Up until now I had kind of given up - he is the strongest horse in the world. Never really ridden by anyone else but he has taken off with two different blokes on two different occasions (one a NH jockey, and the other an experienced instructor) and neither of them could stop him and both said they'd never encountered anything quite like it!!! Depressing huh?! BUT we both loved hunting soooo much I would hate it if we ended up not being able to do it because of this. Also, he leans so hard his tongue swells up - and I feel terrible

I have never seen an American gag before - it looks fierce! With both the American and Cheltenham gags I'm not sure how he'd go as he hates a jointed mouthpiece. He doesn't have much room in his mouth at all either. Double bridle sounds interesting...as does the NS universal, never seen that one before. Glad to see they do them up to 6.5 inches and on trial, though.

Another question too - with 2 reins, they need to be thin, but I'm worried that he will pull them through my hands because I only ever use rubber reins when going to a party - does anyone find this?

 

[connie1288]

I use the universal gag and cheltenham gag with 2 reins, i put a normal rubber rein (stubben cos v flexible) on the snaffle rein and a half rubber rein as the 2nd so i have grip on both reins, can tell which 1 im pulling on but dont have 2 much of a handful.

 

[KatB]

My horse sounds identical, but if you over bit him he stands up. Constantly rips the reins through my hands. He hates the cheltenham gag cos of the poll pressure, and it just makes him lower in his head carriage, the tom thumb worked marginally with a curb strap, as did a bubble gag with a curb strap and a flash. However, the bit he accepts more than anything and is generally quite pleasant in in the NS Universal with curb and a grackle noseband. Get the thinnest mouthpiece you can if he hasnt got room in his mouuth, and I think you will get on ok with it

 

[deefor]

If he doesn't like a jointed mouth piece, this is what I use
American Straight bar happy mouth gag

 

[Enfys]

Universal? Also called Military Reversible I think. Several options of rein placement, two sides to the straight mouthpiece. Like everything else, is only as harsh as the hand on the rein, if your horse will take a straight bar it may be an option to try.

Nothing worse than being a passenger out hunting, no matter how well mannered a horse is at home, sometimes the excitement of the moment just gets a bit much for them I think.

I tried everything I could think of for my arab, snaffles, bitless, gags, pelhams, straightbars, single joints, double joints, waterfords blah, blah, blah, in the end I found that he was happiest in a LS Combination, but it took some time to discover that!

Good Luck, Happy Hunting.

 

[chestnut cob]

Used to use a slotted cheek, high ported kimblewick on my Welshy who pulled like a train, worked really well as it stopped him getting his head between his knees and buggering off. New boy, 17hh IDx, will be going out in that if we go again this season too. First time I took him I used a waterford snaffle (having been told he'd only ever gone in a french link....) and couldn't stop or slow down all day. Will be combining it with a martingale and probably a mexican grackle.

 

[star]

as with lots of bits the cheltenham gag is only as harsh as the hands that use it it can be a very sensitive bit if used correctly light hands make good mouths

that makes it sound like i've got hands like lead. there's nothing wrong with my hands but when the horse is pulling you have to take up a stronger contact to try and slow it down and then it nutcrackers them. yes, it's a lovely bit if you have a horse who listens to the slightest touch on it, but if they ignore that and you actually have to take a pull then it's pretty harsh.

 

[exracergirl]

I hunt in a double bridle. The bridoon has a waterford mouthpiece and I ride primarily off that, and pick up the curb when really desperate!

Horse does actually have super manners, hunts twice a week, does well in the show ring, sidesaddle and dressage up to elem - but I would rather have that extra something and finger tip control than be hauling her back teeth out!!

 

[JenHunt]

I hunt in a double, and my lad, like yours doesn't have much room in his mouth - but he seems to like the double and respects it enough that I can stop with relative ease!

I use one leather rein about half an inch wide on the weymouth (the pelham like one) and I use a leather 'show' rein with rubber on the inside (also about half an inch wide) on the Bradoon (snaffle bit). The two reins then stick together enough that I don't spend my whole time adjusting them, but with enough slip that I can let the bottom rein go if I need to.

This means that there's not too much in my hands and he doesn't pull them through my hands much - he would rip my hands to shreds in his snaffle - but then I use weird reins on that bridle!

I also recommend the Roeckl Chester gloves - they are a synthetic leather - look like real leather, but a grippy and hard wearing for £20!

 

[Starbucks]

Horse does actually have super manners, hunts twice a week, does well in the show ring, sidesaddle and dressage up to elem - but I would rather have that extra something and finger tip control than be hauling her back teeth out!!

I think I'm one of those that annoys everyone hauling on a snaffle, but I'm just struggling to find something I have brakes in but my horse jumps confidently in. Well I don't really haul, we just do a few circles every now and then! I like him to really take me into a fence, especially if it's big stuff, but I don't find he does that in anything I have brakes with. My mum took him in a strong bit as she thought she'd be safer, but he did something silly and tried to jump a masive gate off a track instead of a little wall (i assume he was trying to run out) and he injured her quite badly!!! It's hard to know what to do!

 

[hunterjo]

Definately worth giving a suitable double bridle a go - has totally transformed my days hunting. Can stop, give horse in front space and is an all round much more pleasant day out. The reins plus whip with lash feel like a handful at first but you soon get used to it.

 

[skewby]

Thanks loads guys. I have decided to try the pelham with two reins next time - simply because I have it! If still no joy I might try moving up to a double bridle. I have never managed to make this horse happy in his mouth, have been loaned a hackamore so will try that too (but not for next hunt, don't worry!!!).

 

[star]

i tried my horse in the double at home today and he seemed to accept it so will try it on Boxing Day. I schooled and hacked him in it and he didn't rear like he did with the vulcanite pelham so that's at least an improvement! Here's hoping it's the answer to my prayers!