Brave Pants or just sell

Palindrome

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To back my 3 years old, I took some lessons with someone who specializes in backing competition horses. She also breeds competition horses so has a few youngsters of her own every year. When I told her at the time I also had a yearling, she said: "yearlings are a pain, aren't they?".
I wouldn't despair, my horrible yearling turned into a lovely 2 years old. She did get a 5 minutes session of "attitude adjustment" as she was repeatedly trying to kick me so needed to be shown to move forward when asked. They pick up bad habits really quickly but it can go as fast as it came. Perhaps a lesson with a good RI would help if you feel you are really stuck with the leading.
 

oldie48

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How utterly rude, completely unhelpful and totally unnecessary. I know the OP and she is an experienced and sensible horsewoman, she's just clearly in a situation which she's not dealing with right now.


I absolutely agree with this but would also add "unkind" no-one who posts on this forum should be treated like this and more of us should be willing to say so.
 

stormox

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I am a bit confused by the terminology here. I think OP needs to be more precise. "Waving her legs around" doesnt really tell us much.
Is she rearing? Fun rears like yearlings do, or striking out? Striking purposely at the handler or just playing? Or is it the hindlegs? Is she kicking, and it what scenario? Defensive of food? Whilst grooming?
Or is she just excited?
Until your make it clear to yourself (and us if you need advice) what and why shes doing it I think you will find it difficult to get it under control. It actually sounds a minor problem to me and just normal yearling behaviour.
 

Trouper

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I think I would need to sit myself down and sort out in my mind what the plan really is. I know the idea of a youngster that you can train yourself and that then has not been "spoiled" by anyone else is always very tempting. However with IDs it is always a long game - particularly with their physical development. If it is the pleasure of that development work over the next few years that motivates you then, yes, perhaps get some additional help now to see if these current issues can be sorted to the point where, firstly, you are safe and, secondly, you are confident to carry on. She will not be feeling confident in you as her herd leader at the moment if you are wary of her and if she is not confident she won't learn.
If you see this phase and her training as simply stages to be got through on the way to the sunlit uplands of a well-mannered horse then I am not sure she is right for you as you would not be enjoying the challenges she will bring. Having said that, I am no expert in youngsters and with IDs I would be contacting someone like Janet George for some advice on the here and now and on how to take her forward. I hope you find a plan that you are happy with.
 

Red-1

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I am the same age as you, OP, and so can say that I would sell. I do think that rumbunctious youngsters can and do cone right, but at 52 I certainly feel that I have limited time left to enjoy the wind in the hair, carefree experiences of my youth. Not that they won't happen later, even much later, just that I would rather enjoy now as much as possible as it can be "later than you think" in long term abilities. I am too old for having one that I don't enjoy the majority of the time now.

A couple of years ago I introduced a big horse, Betty on this forum. I had much experience in bringing on big 4y olds professionally, but at 50 I realised she was a mistake after 5 days of riding/handling her. She was here all of 6 days, sold within 6 weeks. I now have a 15.2 ID X, and although I realise that a 4yo was not ideal, I have had help, but still day to day she has been an absolute pleasure. That is the difference. Day to day OH is happy to handle her, I hack and school her, we can go out dressage and I am having help with the jumping.

I would sell and get one that you positively look forward to seeing and handling daily.

As for the horse, I would say that is pretty normal for an ID yearling, kept in a small heard.
 

Megan V1

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Speaking from experience of buying a stunning sect d as a 5 year old who has proved to be just too much horse for me I would sell before you get so attached you can't part with her. I have had mine for over 12 years now and he is perfect on the ground with lots of work but the chances of me ever riding him again are slim to say the least. If I had faced the fact he was too much for me early on I would still be riding but can't justify having another one while I have him.
 
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Every horse, young or old that i have had i always do monty roberts join up, it really helps i think although stubborn horses will take longer 😂

It's a load of crap.

Good quality ground work is needed.

I would suggest either find someone like Jason Webb to come out and help you sort her ground manners out or sell her.

You cannot be nice and soft with youngsters you have to have firm and fair boundaries in place and they have to be very firmly inforced when they step over them.
 

MyBoyChe

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I would be tempted to get some professional help over the winter and if she is no better for you come spring, sell her then. If the plan is for you to back and ride her on, you will be asking for trouble from the start if she doesnt respect and wont behave herself for you. You need to be in charge from the off, it doesnt sound as if you are and it will only get worse if you dont act now. Either admit you need some help (and theres no shame in that) or admit shes too much for you and sell now. If you are experienced around horses you should have a fair idea of whether she is just being a silly baby and needs to learn right from wrong around you, or potentially is just too much horse for you to manage as you get older and she gets bigger!
 

paddy555

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It’s easy to be intimidated by youngsters, and the bigger they are the more easily they can intimidate.

If you can get some help, then brilliant. But if not, it’s no shame to admit a mistake and sell her on (or possibly back to the breeder?).
I agree. Next year she will be 2, bigger and stronger and ready to push the boundaries even more. The year after 3 and I have known some pretty bolshy 3yo's. If you are scared it is not worth getting hurt. There are lots of nice horses out there that could give you a lot of fun.
 

Tiddlypom

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I agree. Next year she will be 2, bigger and stronger and ready to push the boundaries even more. The year after 3 and I have known some pretty bolshy 3yo's. If you are scared it is not worth getting hurt. There are lots of nice horses out there that could give you a lot of fun.
This.

I may not be the bravest rider, but I am darn hood at insisting on and getting good ground manners from all the horses that I handle. However, at age 61, I really wouldn’t want to take on another bolshy youngster like this to sort out. I’m not as quick or as agile as I was, and timing is everything when dealing with difficult horses.

If I foster a rescue pony again, I’ll go for one of the scared ones that needs their confidence building up, like I did last time. I loved bringing her on. I’ll leave the bolshy ones for the younger and fitter handlers.
 

hihosilver

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I think sometimes the over handling is unnecessary. I see a trend now with people long lining and lunging and so call handling 2 year olds. The best thing is to put her in a proper young stock herd with decent hay and leave her. Go down and just brush her if you must. When you or she is ready load her and get her broken by a pro. I've seen both done over the year, feral well grown 3 year old or those just over handled and bitted as babies. Let her be a horse- she will mature and grow. Definitely cut out the feed as her association of coming in is food then that's going to be excitement for her. Young horses are difficult and you have to think it will be 7 or 8 years time that an Irish will grow up mentally and physically. Also about 8-10,000 pounds to produce and keep! you could go out and buy something much more suitable!
 

Tiddlypom

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‘Let her be a horse’.

Ok, so you bring her in age 4, weighing 650kg+, and she’s still stropping because no one has has told her not to?

I get the point about not over handling, but any young horse needs to learn to be caught and to tie up, to be led quietly in hand, to move over or back when asked, and to be good with the farrier and dentist. Other refinements such as loading can wait, but IME the basics need installing early.
 

Fransurrey

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I'd get the help of a behaviourist to help lay down some solid foundations. I know how you feel about having ponies then a horse. For the first month I had my cob I was constantly on the watch for his big bum swinging round and the size of his hooves shocked me, lol! He actually feels small, now. It does sound like she's a typical baby and the size change is more of an issue than the actual behaviour.
 

sjp1

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Young horses are often a pita - and almost always push boundaries but they do grow out of it - bit like the terrible twos or threes with children. I think its up to you really - if you really want to keep it then you just have to set down firm boundaries and potentially it will grow out of it, but for me at 50, I didn't want a youngster. I didn't want to do the first of everything as I have done previously, I wanted something who had done all that. Having said that, my lad who had a lot of body issues when he came to me almost certainly has ulcers which I am not treating - I suspect a change of home and environment for a horse that was anxious anyway has caused this ............... so nothing with horses is ever simple!! Perhaps get someone in to do the breaking etc or send it away to be broken?
 

paddy555

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‘Let her be a horse’.

Ok, so you bring her in age 4, weighing 650kg+, and she’s still stropping because no one has has told her not to?

I get the point about not over handling, but any young horse needs to learn to be caught and to tie up, to be led quietly in hand, to move over or back when asked, and to be good with the farrier and dentist. Other refinements such as loading can wait, but IME the basics need installing early.
my youngster at 10 mo was in horse hospital in isolation for nearly a week and needed handling to get blood tests and medicines in plus all the usual stuff they do in there. When he was admitted (and they didn't know if they could save him) I held him for 2 hours in their exam room whilst continual blood tests were flying around everywhere and his guts were scanned for over 30 minutes for which he had to stand still.
How on earth would he have coped if he had not learnt the basics? I needed the hospital to wrestle with his medical problems not with the horse..

The grooms told me youngsters were often difficult. Mine was a saint, that was because he had been well handled. He was not over-handled, he was only handled for half an hour a day, the other 23.5 hours he spent in the field with his mentor.
A youngster can fall seriously ill just as an older horse. Vets and owners need a youngster that is well handled and has learnt to behave if they hope to save it's life.
It is fine having bossy brood mares to keep youngsters under control. That teaches them to be a respectful part of the herd. The bossy mare is not the one controlling them when they are with humans. It is the human that needs to set the rules for human contact.
 
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Sell her. Trust me, it's zero fun having something that's not in your comfort zone (feel free to read my threads in Bailey).
Far better to have something that's a pleasure to have around. I'm not saying she's horrible, she just sounds like a typical baby but IDs are quite late to mature both mentally and physically so you could have a tough time for several years yet.
I wish you the best of luck x
 

stormox

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What is the matter with people these days the minute a horse displays horse behaviour they want to sell, send back to dealer or otherwise get rid? Why do people not have the patience anymore to work through a problem?
Why do people want everything instantly - get a horse and they expect it to be perfect.
Horses are always 2 steps forward, one step back. Everyone has bad days and feels theyr on a hiding to nothing. But work through these problems and the satisfaction us immense.
Come on people, dont just throw in the towel. Persevere, have patience and work through problems rather than the ' sell it I can buy a better one ' attitude.
 

Goldenstar

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What is the matter with people these days the minute a horse displays horse behaviour they want to sell, send back to dealer or otherwise get rid? Why do people not have the patience anymore to work through a problem?
Why do people want everything instantly - get a horse and they expect it to be perfect.
Horses are always 2 steps forward, one step back. Everyone has bad days and feels theyr on a hiding to nothing. But work through these problems and the satisfaction us immense.
Come on people, dont just throw in the towel. Persevere, have patience and work through problems rather than the ' sell it I can buy a better one ' attitude.

Horses are supposed to be fun when someone posts and they have just made the wrong decision I think it best just to honest .
It’s clear from OP’s opening post that she has just had that earth shattering moment you get in your career with horses when you realise you are ageing .
This a yearling it might be eight before it’s any near the finished article OP will then be 58 .
She has to get from now to then .
It’s far better to get out now and buy something that suits better and have seven years of easy fun .
Because that what you need as you age easy fun .
 

Rowreach

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What is the matter with people these days the minute a horse displays horse behaviour they want to sell, send back to dealer or otherwise get rid? Why do people not have the patience anymore to work through a problem?
Why do people want everything instantly - get a horse and they expect it to be perfect.
Horses are always 2 steps forward, one step back. Everyone has bad days and feels theyr on a hiding to nothing. But work through these problems and the satisfaction us immense.
Come on people, dont just throw in the towel. Persevere, have patience and work through problems rather than the ' sell it I can buy a better one ' attitude.

I agree on some levels, but sometimes it is better for both owner and horse if they go their separate ways.

I've had loads of clients come to me with the "wrong" horse for them. Some you can work with and find a way forward, and some are far happier finding a horse that is more suited to them and (arguably more importantly, since they don't get a choice) the horse is better off with an owner who is a better match for them.

There is no shame in admitting that you have the wrong horse.
 
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Sell. Life is too short for the wrong horse. I only wish I'd listened to my own advice 6years ago and sold my wrong horse, but I didn't and i wasted 6 years of my life, he was ultimately pts after 2 years of lameness but there was barely a day went by that he wasn't a pita and too many days he was just plain dangerous

I now have a wonderful horse who I look forward to seeing every day
 

be positive

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I agree on some levels, but sometimes it is better for both owner and horse if they go their separate ways.

I've had loads of clients come to me with the "wrong" horse for them. Some you can work with and find a way forward, and some are far happier finding a horse that is more suited to them and (arguably more importantly, since they don't get a choice) the horse is better off with an owner who is a better match for them.

There is no shame in admitting that you have the wrong horse.
I agree, often you can work through things and keep the horse but in this case it is only a yearling so it is a very long term partnership which can only improve so far with professional help, it is the next 5 or 6 years that are so important for the horse and if the owner is scared now by the time it needs riding away they may have lost even more confidence.
I don't like to give up but this really does not sound as if it will be the right horse for the OP who probably needs something she can enjoy riding, or at least handling, now.
 

vhf

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Mcnaughty, I'd sell. You need something that will be kind to you, as we get older we need to take fewer risks with our health. Alternatively send her away to somewhere she can run with other young stock and some older mares who can keep her in line, bring her back in a year or two when she's grown up a bit.[/QUOTE]

This, pretty much. You're not enjoying her. It will cost a lot to get her to an age you can ride, so you really should be enjoying that time. If you are committed to this horse, and think she will be what you want when she's grown up, find a way to get her there safely, either by getting in help, or sending her away. If it's the journey you wanted as much as the destination, sell her and get a more placid natured youngster who will be easier to enjoy. No shame in it whichever way you go.
 
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