Breathing problems - allergy? Shiatsu?

[Gill1980]

Hi, I'm new here... just came on to post about this on recommendation that peope here may be able to shed some light...

I have a 16 hand 13 year old gelding who I've owned for about 9 years.
Earlier this year in April he suddenly overnight developed breathing difficulties. Called the vet who put him on ventipulmin, didn't help so endoscoped him which revealed he had an allergy to something but unfortunately the vet couldn't tell me what.
Tried steroids (inhaler and then oral) which didn't make much difference either. Endoscoped again, nothing else showing up... by this point horse had lost a lot of weight and was really poor... bloods showed there was an allergy but still vet had no idea what to...

Vet said he wanted to Xray his chest so booked that in... then suddenly the day before, he got better... literally overnight just like it started... he'd been ill for about 2-3 months by this time
Vet decided to Xray anyway and all was fine... bloods also fine

Horse was 100% OK (put weight back on, was himself again, etc) for 6 months then suddenly in November overnight again the problem came back... It's still there... as yet have not gone down the steroid route but he's had 2 courses of antibiotics as infection was present and a course of respumin. Endoscope and bloods showed up pretty much the same as before... presence of an 'allergy' but no idea what to!!

He seems better in the stable surprisingly (although I guess that's due to the cold weather) He's lived out 24/7 for the past 3 years but is now in all the time as it does seem to make a small improvement to the wheezing but the heave line and laboured breathing plus coughing is still there...

I can't seem to keep weight on him despite feeding him plenty and he is drinking next to nothing (although again this could be the cold I guess)...

Vet says it's definately not a dust allergy but is something he's inhaling... although still no idea what!!

Currently I have him on no drugs... in the stable rugged up warm and having a nice sloppy hot feed of calm n condition (quarter scoop soaked so makes a big scoopful once wet), pasture mix(3/4 scoop), hifi (1 scoop) with garlic and some easy breathing herbs (which I only started feeding a few days ago so as yet have made no difference) he's on adlib hay (which is currently not soaked as tried this for a while and made no difference at all) and a shavings bed...
He's currently not in work and hasn't been since the problem came back but is usually in light work through the winter and medium work through the summer.

Anone got any ideas?? Any advice/comments/suggestions etc all welcome... please ask if this doesn't make sense... think I've written most of it down but bound to have missed something!!

Also, insurance company have suggested, since I have just about exhausted my limit on vet fee claim now

, that I try alternative therapy sich as Shiatsu or something similar... Anyone have any experience of this at all?? Again, any advice welcome!!

Thanks so much if you've read this and please let me know if you have any ideas!! I'm stumped, vet is stumped and horse is very unhappy!!

PS... sorry if I've rambled!!!

 

[Araminta]

whereabouts are you based?

 

[Gill1980]

Hi Araminta, I'm in Surrey...

 

[Araminta]

Have pm'd you

 

[Gill1980]

Thanks hun I'll have a look now

 

[chestnut cob]

My friend's horse is going through something v similar. She's exceeded her insurance limit and they still can't find anything. Her boy has all the same sorts of things you describe (although her boy isn't losing weight like yours, he's always been a fatty and because he can't be worked now, he hasn't lost any weight).

She took him up to Liverpool about 6 weeks ago and they suggested he had a parasite in his liver but that they didn't know how to treat it. He goes back this week I think for more tests as the treatments they tried haven't helped.

I would ask your vet for a referral, or get a second opinion. If you've exceeded your insurance limit then they can't quibble over that surely, as it's your money now.

Hope he gets better soon, it must be awful not knowing

 

[Gill1980]

Thanks Chestnut Cob!! I hope your friend's horse gets better! It's so heartbreaking to see them sick! Especially when no one can tell you what's wrong!!

This horse already cheated death once about 3 years ago when he shredded both DDF tendons in his fores and after MRI-ing him the vet said there was no hope... thank god for farriers eh??!! Horse has been sound since 2 days after diagnosis and is now out jumping again!! Or he was until this anyway!!

To be honest when it first happened I thought he'd been poisoned... it was that extreme and quick to come on that I was actually sitting at home wracking my brains to think if I could've upset anyone or anything... stupid I know but that's how mysterious this has been!!
Looked along hedgerows for anything that could've been thrown into the field and he could've eaten etc...

Vet wondered if it had anything to do with an orchard that's been planted next door and the pollen from the trees... but the trees are still only tiny saplings and I can't imagine there's any pollen at this time of year... I've checked around and nothing is being sprayed (pesticides etc) at the moment...

My boy has always been really prone to losing weight... it drops off him in a couple of days if he's stressed or in pain... when he did his tendons he looked like a hat rack!!

I have my vet coming first thing tomorrow morning and have asked him to do some more thorough blood tests to check for liver and kidney problems as with him not drinking much and being quite dehydrated I'm really worried he could have something more than an allergy!! :'(

I've asked him also to recommend a shiatsu pratcitioner for me or anyone else he can think of... have also contacted a lady who practices Chinese Herbal medicine and asked for her advice... waiting to hear back...

I still have a small amount in the insurance kitty... although I have to admit after that I'm a bit screwed as already living on the credit card!!

I just want to know what's wrong so I can do the best thing for him!! At the moment I don't know whether I'm coming or going!! It was only purely by chance that i found out he's better in the stable as he managed to get a whacking great abscess in his sole and had to be in and poulticed cos he was so lame... funnily enough it's the 1st abscess he's ever had in 9 years so I wonder if it was linked in some way to him being really low...

 

[BackInBlack]

having similar probs with my horse - tho at the moment he's not too bad so i'm getting him as fit as i can before the spring in case it's spaod - i'm really scared that he's going to get really bad again. vet doesn't know what it is so i'm just trying to do as much observing as i can. i'm feeding him local honey daily to get him used to grass pollens before the summer, and a breathing supplement, wetting his food etc. he's out 24/7 with access to stable. last year he got bad blood results and they thought he had liver disease but all his results went back to normal. he's always maintained weight, had shiny coat but the whites of his eyes went really red - and they still are. i didn't ride him all summer- he was really lethargic. have been riding him through the winter and he seems ok tho i'm not sure he'd be up to any day rides or anything like that. going to get his bloods checked again soon and just keeping fingers crossed. so like you any ideas would be much appreciated, fingers crossed for us all. x

 

[Gill1980]

Hi jump_around...

GREAT idea about local honey and I hadn't even thought of it despite doing this myself before to beat hayfever!!

Vet came this morning and checked him again... he's developed a stage 3 heart murmur now as well poor boy! :'(

Should have results of the bloods which he's testing for anything and everything later today or tomorrow so fingers crossed it shows something I can treat!!

No way I could ride him at the moment he's struggling so hard to breathe at rest I think he'd keel over!! :'(

Fingers crossed for you and your boy!!!

PS... I love your signature strip thingy!! PMSL at the horse holding it's feed bowl!! haha and I want that boxer pup!! Too cute!!

 

[Gill1980]

Well this just gets stranger!! Bloods have come back CLEAR! NORMAL!! How can he be so sick when there is nothing wrong?? I'm at my wits end here!!

On the plus side have managed to find a local honey supplier!!

Bloomin expensive so fingers crossed it'll help!!

In the meantime any more advise etc all welcome!! Thanks

 

[BackInBlack]

yeah, i couldn't believe it when Smokeys came back clear. puzzling.

prince is the hungry horse on my siggy and Tank is a bulldog! doesn't look as cute nowadays! well, he does but in a different way..

i'm also going to get a chiro out to look at Smokey because vet says laboured breathing may be a way of coping with pain going on somewhere in his body. i wish there was a machine that could just scan them and tell you what was wrong

 

[Gill1980]

It's crazy!! Hasn't been normal when he's had the problems before always shown an allergy!! I'm hoping it means he's on the mend!! Vet's still convinced it's an allergy to a pollen but no way of knowing which one...

My insurance company suggested I try the Shiatsu route... am going to get vet to refer me... and use the last bit of insurance money to try it I think!!

Anyway... spoke to the man who produces the local honey today (he's only a few miles away and is the same one I used to get honey from years ago when I suffered from hayfever!!) He says the last pollen that would've been around is Ivy!! More than possible that there's some of that in our hedges I would think... and funnily enough this first occured just after our hedges had been cut!! So maybe that exposed some or something...?

Going to try the honey and see if that makes any difference... although I'm guessing that whatever's causing it is on the way out... just panicking about what to do next time it occurs!!

I'm feeding the global herbs as recommended by feed merchant and thinking of messing around with his feed... i.e cutting out the mix for a few weeks and seeing if it makes any difference... thing is, as the vet said, whatever I do I have no guarantee that if there is an improvement it has anything to do with the changes I've made... it might just be coincidence that he was getting better anyway!!! aaaargh!!

Still have the inhaler steroids he used before and vet says fine to give these to him if he has a bad day and see if it makes any difference...

It's like being stuck in a big hole isn't it?? So frustrating!!

A bulldog?? Ooops I thought he was a boxer!! Still sooo cute tho!! hehe

Do you mind me asking where you're based? Wondering if you're local and it could even be caused by the same thing!!!

 

[BackInBlack]

i'm in somerset. yes it's frustrating - i'm just going to keep an eye on everything in case Smokey goes downhill again. and in the meantime keep trawling the internet!
he improved after a course of ventipulmin and steroids so at least i can call for those if he gets lethargic again instead of having to wait months for some sort of diagnosis this time.

 

[ColourFan]

At your mention of the heart murmur I stated thinking of my girlfriend's stallion.
He also had problems breathing, was diagnozed with 'an allergy' or as being a chronic wheezer. He was checked over by 3 different vets ... voor insurance reasons ... and all of them concurred with the original diagnosis!

To make a long story short ... the stallion was seen by an 'alternative' medicine vet, who diagnosed a 'water sac' around the heart muscle ... there was a buildup of fluids in the sac surrounding the heart. When working or in times of stress the heart was unable to pump properly, thereby not being able to supply the body with enough oxygen, whereby the lungs where not able to do their job. Result was that the poor boy started gasping and wheezing for air.

The stallion was treated for the water-sac and after 4! years of heavy medicines (ventipulmin, enz enz), he was 'cured'. So much so that a 17 year old previously tired stallion started acting like a 3 year old colt!! Although always the gentle-man, the owner had to change his paddock place and handling.

 

[SO1]

My living out pony developed an allergy in November! Not much pollen in november and not dust as he lives out - he went on ventipulimin and I also put him on global herbs airways plus and he recovered after a month. Mystery as to what caused but I am thinking perhaps mushroom spores.

 

[the watcher]

QR
I have found the Global herbs products to be very effective and to improve water takeup you could consider Bowen therapy - i can't explain how it works, but can only assure you that it does make a difference

 

[Gill1980]

Thanks SO1 and mother hen... He is currently on the airways plus by global herbs but doesn't seem to be making any difference... some days he is better than others and I get hope he is beating it and then the next day he's really bad again!

He is also now on antihystamin (sorry about spelling!) tablets from the vet which vet wasn't too keen on as says he hasn't known any cases of success with them really...
I have a lady who does Reiki coming to see him on Sunday so fingers crossed please!!

You know I hadn't even thought of mushrooms before (funnily enough I'm really allergic to mushrooms and even the smell of them cooking makes me sick!) but there are masses of mushroom/fungi type things growing all round our field!!
Think I'll be destroying them just in case!!!!

Latest thought really was Ivy pollen as that's the only thing which pollenates in winter apparently... and we have lots of ivy growing on the gateposts and in the hedges... far too much to be able to pull up and burn unfortunately so if it is that there'll be no option other than to move him which I'm trying to avoid if possible!

Please do keep thoughts and advise coming as really appreciate it!!

Regarding the sac around the heart I did talk to the vet about this but think it would've shown up on lung/chest xrays...

Back to the drawing board!!! ...