Breed Stereotypes Nature or Nurture ??

[be positive]

There have been several threads recently describing behaviour as typical of this or that breed. Is it down to Nature or Nurture?? Obviously there are some traits that are natural, a cob is not a racehorse and a Shetland is not going to excel as a GP SJ
Over the years I have had experience with most of our native pony breeds, tbs, Arabs, cobs and various part breds. There are always exceptions but on the whole I feel that their start in life is what sets their future, they may be opinionated as foals but with careful handling these will often be the bold, confident ones in their adult life.
People often think of Arabs as flighty but I have know some that were as steady and calm as most people would expect a cob to be, some cobs are very reactive and certainly not for novice riders.
Recently an ex racer was kept here, he lived out in a group, was really chilled easy to get in and out of the field etc, he went to a new loan home, within a few weeks he was deemed dangerous and he could not be led without a bridle and was sent back to his owners, he has settled again and is back to his old self.
So are these traits expected by some people, so that to some extent the animal behaves in the way expected of it or is it accepted because of the breed/ type so that it behaves in that way.
What are your experiences of different breeds and do you feel it is how they are born or how they are brought up, it helps if you know the full history and often much is guesswork.
I am not really talking about horses that have been really ill treated and have deep rooted issues, more the slight quirks you learn to live with.

 

[Jesstickle]

I have a TB and a TBxWB. I've had them both since they were pretty young. Both of them are lazy, laid back little sods and are some of the least flighty things I've ever met. I'm pretty sure the stereotype for them doesn't match what they're actually like. They're quieter than most of the ponies and cobs on the yard really.

So nurture is probably more important than nature in my opinion. Which makes me sound like an egotistical maniac but I'm not claiming any credit for them. Just lucky I guess!

 

[LauraWheeler]

Temperament of the New Forest Pony

They are noted for friendliness, intelligence, strength, versatility and are nearly always willing-to-please. New Forestors are amongst the most approachable of all the native British pony breeds, perhaps because of their history of frequent contact with man


The horrid one AKA Herbie. is agressive, does what he wants and god help you if you try to make him do something he doesn't. He hates people (esp men), other horses, dogs, cats, anything that goes near him realy. He's not easy to train as he questions everything you ask him to do.

The orange one AKA Merryn. Is dopey and loyal. If anything he's abit thick. Regualy touches the electric fence and seems shocked when it bites him . He trys his best but he just doesn't pick things up very quickly. He will do anything for food though.

Both boys are forest bred foresters with fairly similer breeding. There is only a year between them in age. You couldn't get two more diffrent ponies if you tried. They have both had very diffrent starts in life. Merryn has only ever had the one owner before me. Herbs had 6 owners before I got him and he was only 8. He was also a stallion till he was 7.
Merryn has been loved his whole life. Herbs has been shoved from piller to post and I think has been badly treated somewhere along the line.

I do think breeds have certain traits but I think on the whole it's down to the way they are treated.

 

[Capriole]

I had a Welsh cob years ago, I didnt know until recently that they have a rep! Mine was lovely

I currently have various horses, including a sweet, quiet tb with really good feet, and pb Arab and pb TBs that are so laid back theyre horizontal

 

[stargirl88]

Seeing as temperament can be bred for - I'd say initially it's mostly down to nature HOWEVER of course handling plays a great part in it - a placid horse can still be ruined by bad handling.

 

[Hippona]

Nuture most definately.....my arab fitted the typical 'crazy arab' stereotype when I got him.....not that he'd been harmed or not looked after ...but certainly making changes to his diet and management have shown his true character to be a loving, loyal, inquisitive trusting lad.....most definately not spooky or mental

We had a shettie who did not fit the stereotype of 'shitland'.....she was bloody brilliant- wish we'd never sold her. BUT before we got her she was known for bucking small children off and having a roll with them on-board. I didn't know this before we bought her ( it was omitted from the sellers description) but was told to us after we'd had her for years by others who knew her.....'funny how she's never done X,Y,Z with you....she used to be a right git' Hopefully she never reverted to type after we sold her.......

 

[QueenOfCadence]

I believe it's 50% nature and 50% nurture. Some breeds are genetically programmed to be a certain way (through genetics mostly), WBs are BRED to be able to handle the stress of competition, TBs are BRED to be flighty and to want to run and ponies like shetlands are naughty because nobody has gone through the trouble to single out bloodlines that are more manageable and to only breed with them

Of course it's nurture aswell, a calm WB could be made skittish if he was not introduced to new things as a foal, a skittish TB could be made calm if he was raised the same way a WB was (introduced to everything and treated as a top class sport horse from day one) and a shetland could be disciplined if the owners enforced strict rules/limits from day one.

I have a Welsh Sec C x TB who fits the breed stereotype of the TB more than that of the Sec C (though his dam was a TB, so he was surrounded by TBs, had TB genes and was a witness to his mom's TBish antics)

In the end, you DO get exceptions, but they're the exceptions and MOST horses (IMHO) do fit the breed stereotype

 

[Inchy]

I have two full brother, one 9yrs, one 10yrs. both stayed at the stud they were born at till they were 2yrs. I bought one straight from stud at 2yrs, the other i bought at 9yrs last year. Both have very similar habits and temperaments despite spending the majority of their life apart!

 

[be positive]

I have two full brother, one 9yrs, one 10yrs. both stayed at the stud they were born at till they were 2yrs. I bought one straight from stud at 2yrs, the other i bought at 9yrs last year. Both have very similar habits and temperaments despite spending the majority of their life apart!

This is interesting, showing a true reflection of both the breeding and early upbringing. It is not often that horses can be compared in this way, even full siblings in the racing world can be so different.

I think apart from some inbred traits,it is nurture that will stay with most horses throughout there lives, provided they do not have a really traumatic incident that they cannot get over.

 

[Inchy]

Yes - being exceptionally grumpy is inbred into both of them!!

 

[tallyho!]

To find out for sure... you'd have to rig up a study with a hypothesis that "all horses develop personalities".

Then to ensure it is powered enough to be able to prove (or disprove) the theory, I think you would need 30 mares and foals of the same age from different breeds e.g. 30 TBs. 30 spaniards, 30 WBs and 30 shetlands.

Treat every one the same for 24months using predefined routine without telling staff that this is an experiment or that they are different breeds (might be difficult for shetlands...).

You then need measures e.g. weaning temperament of mare and foal. Time to halter train, lead, pick up feet etc, interaction with other herd members and ease of handling.

Anyway, loads more than that.

Then you can measure the results as you sort them into breed type.

So, I reckon it would cost about £60k... anyone got any spare cash?

 

[Rosie Round The Hills]

Suffolk Punch - stubborn, steadfast, stubborn, and loyal.

 

[FanyDuChamp]

Fany is an Ardennes and is absolutely typical of the breed, loving, kind, forgiving, stoic and stubborn and opinionated but a real gentle giant, never bitten or raised a foot to any one.

Captain s a KWPN Gelderlander, a WB. He is loving, hard working, learns fast and is talented, intelligent and versatile but does not tolerate fools, which is a major feature of the breed. So yes he conforms to his breed, were he doesn't eg he is opinionated and can be aggressive if pushed into a corner is due to abuse.

FDC

 

[Alfie&Milo]

I'm not sure what the stereotype is for dartmoors, I have two of the complete opposite natures! Both are good tempered but everything else about them is opposite!
And as for my welsh section c, and all I've heard about them is being little brats! She's a little highly strung but very loving and affectionate and as far as I can tell only bratty as in needing lots of rugs and not liking being out in the field longer than necessary!

 

[ausipaliboi]

Really interesting thread.

I love my TB's, always have. I find they are honest and do their best but they are sensitive and although they let you know when you screw up they are quick to forgive.

Currently own a pali TB x QH. My boi's father is the grandfather of a friends TB. Both are sooky little la-la boys, sensitive to change but good to handle. Iknow nothing about QH's but everything about my boi seems to be TB.

My boi was bred and lived on a farm up the tablelands. I firmly believe his breeders / owners are the reason for his excessively flighty and herd bound behaviour. He was petrified of everything that moved when he was brought down to the coast. I don't think they ever properly trained him or desensitised him, wouldn't be surprised if they simply threw on a saddle and rode the bucks out. I heard from my farrier that at one time he was used in the feedlots by a rider who used spurs on him.

The friend of mine who bought him for her daughter tried to train him for polocrosse and when I discovered the methods she had used I kept my mouth shut and changed the subject. Needless to say he will never be a polocrosse horse. My own personal opinion is that he has not had the fortune of an owner or rider with commonsense before coming to me so I chose to love him despite his faults!

I would be interested in getting his full history from his breeders but I am not known for my ability to shut my mouth nor be tactful and cannot see that conversation ending well!!

He has improved with me over the nearly 4 years I have owned him but there are so many things I can't do with him that I have been able to do with most any other horse. Even though I have put in a lot of work into him there is still so much more that needs to be done and I can't be bothered so I simply take him as he is and enjoy him for the way he is.

Other TB's I have had experience with. 2 of 3 were ex racehorses, one bolted on me (my own fault). The other bolted on his owner but never put a hoof wrong with me, he was a lot of fun and even though I had very little idea of what I was doing he always took care of me when he was badly behaved for other people.

The 3rd was an unraced mare and we didn't get along at all. She bred 3 foals. I had close contact with the owners of 2 of them. Both of them were just as nuts as she was though also had great abilities.

A lady owns a TB in the paddock next to mine and he seems to be the very calm laid back type that I have had fun with before. She is a lovely lady and although doesn't necessarily seem an experienced rider they make a lovely pair.

 

[Montyforever]

Bit of both ..
I've got 2 welsh ponies, one I know all of her history and she's one of the most difficult ponies I've ever worked with as you can't predict her moods/reactions but is also one of the sweetest little ponies. The other would be so laid back she would be an angel if she hadn't been obviously mistreated at somepoint in her past. But that has made her jumpy around people even people that handle her daily

 

[Toast]

Boy*

 

[traceyann]

My WB blood came from a long line of dressage breeding and thats what i wanted him to do but he has the concentration span of a knat so now he events

 

[eahotson]

All Welsh are bolshy and nutty right? There are 3 in our yard, all of them absolute sweathearts.On is a yongster owned by a novice and behaves beautifully.