Breeding an unregistered horse is comparable to buying fur... discuss

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Kate260881

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I was having a discussion with a friend recently about unregistered horse breeding and her opinion is that it is the same as buying fur and I have to say she has a very valid point.

When you buy fur, you have no concept of what quality of life the animal led, generally it isn't a waste product, its purely there because someone wants 'something nice' - so you can't logically claim that you care about the standard of living that animal.

Now, you breed two unregistered horses to 'see what we get' and the chances of said offspring having poor conformation are higher, the chances of it ending up at the sales is higher, going for meat or being generally neglected are all higher. So therefore you can't really care that much about the quality of life that that animal will lead.

Discuss.....

PS: and don't give me that 'but I'd give it a home for life' bullsh!t because nobody can predict the future and to think you can is increadibly naive.

PPS: this is also not a 'all unregistered horses are sh!t' post so don't start posting about how wonderful your unregistered's are.
 
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What do you mean by registered. With whom?

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ditto
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Well registered with any stud book or breed society really. Its about being able to track offspring and ensure that what you produce has the best possible future you can provide for it. At least if its registered you can look up other ofspring and see what the dam/sire line has produced and hedge your bets accordingly. You cannot do this with something that has no dam/sire line!
 
are you spoiling for a fight? lol! I think that this is a provocative subject and yes, I have both registered and unregistered animals in my rescue centre, none of them through any fault of their own and the registered ones can be just as likely to end up with the meat man. I have some registered horses bred for eventing that once past their sell by date are dumped just as easily as non registered. I have also had a mare out of Clover Hill who had the worst conformation I have ever seen......its all down to individuals I think
 
Everything has a dam/sire line....... surely? But anyway, in answer to your question, no i do not think it is the same as buying fur!
 
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Well registered with any stud book or breed society really

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That is absolutely no guarantee in any way that what you're breeding will have the best possible future in any way. It is also no assurance that what you are breeding will have even half way decent confirmation. Any horse can be registered with any society (within set guidelines). No one comes to look at its cofirmation.

Are you confusing this with grading? Again - no gaurantee of anything really.
 
Oh I get you - you mean the way that warmbloods are completely inbred etc?

Yeah, registered horses have the best chance...sheesh!
 
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Everything has a dam/sire line....... surely? But anyway, in answer to your question, no i do not think it is the same as buying fur!

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No properly unregistered horse would have no traceable dam or sire line. The passport would say 'unknown breeding' in the place where dam and sire should be. I think it's a very provactive subject and quite an extreme opinion but I suppose by buying from someone who specifically bred horse's from unknown breeding you are fueling the trade of said horses. If no one was willing to buy something they couldn't trace then people would stop breeding them. But should the trade in unregistered horses be stopped or is there a genuine need for mongrels?
 
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or is there a genuine need for mongrels?

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Yes, I think there is.

Having said that - how many bloodlines are now undiluted? (Excluding the TB industry).
 
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Everything has a dam/sire line....... surely? But anyway, in answer to your question, no i do not think it is the same as buying fur!

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No properly unregistered horse would have no traceable dam or sire line. The passport would say 'unknown breeding' in the place where dam and sire should be. I think it's a very provactive subject and quite an extreme opinion but I suppose by buying from someone who specifically bred horse's from unknown breeding you are fueling the trade of said horses. If no one was willing to buy something they couldn't trace then people would stop breeding them. But should the trade in unregistered horses be stopped or is there a genuine need for mongrels?

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I think what was meant here is that everything has a sire and dam line BUT some are not written down.

I think thinking like this (the OP/her friend)is exceptionally short sighted. I know of two horses that are 'registered' and their conformation is shocking. I would never breed from them. Equally there are some 'parentage unknown' top level eventers are there not?

Indiscriminate breeding is wrong, yes but IMO this has nothing to do with the horse being 'registered' and everything to do with sound judgement and trained eye of the breeders in this world.
 
So really...

Is this post a rant about people breeding unregistered horses?

Or are you also complaining about people buying horse who are unregistered?


And how can you compare it to buying fur...no one gets shaved doing this!!!
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Sorry this is confusing!
 
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Indiscriminate breeding is wrong, yes but IMO this has nothing to do with the horse being 'registered' and everything to do with sound judgement and trained eye of the breeders in this world.

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Couldn't have put it any better.
 
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or is there a genuine need for mongrels?

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Yes, I think there is.

Having said that - how many bloodlines are now undiluted? (Excluding the TB industry).

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and actually warmbloods ARE mongrels. All of them
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Everything has a dam/sire line....... surely? But anyway, in answer to your question, no i do not think it is the same as buying fur!

[/ QUOTE ]

No properly unregistered horse would have no traceable dam or sire line. The passport would say 'unknown breeding' in the place where dam and sire should be. I think it's a very provactive subject and quite an extreme opinion but I suppose by buying from someone who specifically bred horse's from unknown breeding you are fueling the trade of said horses. If no one was willing to buy something they couldn't trace then people would stop breeding them. But should the trade in unregistered horses be stopped or is there a genuine need for mongrels?

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I think what was meant here is that everything has a sire and dam line BUT some are not written down.

I think thinking like this (the OP/her friend)is exceptionally short sighted. I know of two horses that are 'registered' and their conformation is shocking. I would never breed from them. Equally there are some 'parentage unknown' top level eventers are there not?

Indiscriminate breeding is wrong, yes but IMO this has nothing to do with the horse being 'registered' and everything to do with sound judgement and trained eye of the breeders in this world.

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BINGO................
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In answer to the OP, I think that's tosh.
There are plenty of unregistered animals that are crap and lead miserable lives, equally there are plenty that are well put together, honest, talented animals. I have no idea what breeding the pony in my sig is (apart from him being purebred pikey pony
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) and he's honest, well put together and can jump like a stag. Wouldn't change him for anything.

There are so many animals bred for a job that can't do it, the best jumping bloodlines can produce something that can't jump a stick. How many TBs are bred in the purple each year, only to be tossed aside because they aren't up to scratch on the racecourse? Unless they are re-trained properly, those animals would be better off being shot and used for fur.
 
Breeding with registered horses has its pitfalls almost as much as putting 2 unregistered horses together. If any of you have been to a Lipizaner stud & Spanish Riding School you'll know what I mean. I went to one in what was then Yugoslavia, the stallions in the show were fantastic.....but when you went around the stables you saw some right weird shapes & sizes of breeding that didn't go as expected. Breeding from registered horses may give you some advantage but it is no guarantee. If it was we could regularly produce a top horse but breeding always has some element of luck in it.
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or is there a genuine need for mongrels?

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Yes, I think there is.

Having said that - how many bloodlines are now undiluted? (Excluding the TB industry).

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and actually warmbloods ARE mongrels. All of them
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Sorry I use the word mongrel for dogs and horses of unknown breeding, given that warmbloods quite often have pink papers I would not class them as mongrel but mix breeds. That goes for all mixed breed horses, I was talking about the ponies at the sales that have 'unknown' on the passport.

I think there probably are a few unregistered eventers/junpers/dressage horses out there that are doing really well. So I ask you, if it was a good mare of unknown breeding would you take the really good eventer and just get 'that stallion down the road, the one with a pretty head' to cover it? Or would you got to a registered stud horse that had proven himself and start breeding traceable horses with at least half papers? By half papers I mean one half of the horses bloodline are traceable, just too keep things clear.
 
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OK, some people need to read. I didn't say that unregistered horses were tosh, I specifically said that that was not what I was saying. I am saying that the chances of you getting something tosh if you do not know the bloodlines is much higher than if you do. I also did not say that anybody's unregistered horses are crap. I myself had owned unregistered and registered but there is no way I would put my mare to a stallion if I couldn't see his history.

I'll conceed that comparing it to fur is maybe stretching it but I was just saying that if you think of it that way my friend had a point.

PS: Amy_Whittingham - the animals are skinned... not shaved.
 
But plenty of people have brought registered horses that have back hock problems etc that are not disclosed at point of sale - doesn't matter whether it's registered or not.
 
With a lot of horses going for slaughter and a lot of young horses getting arthritis, sometimes before they are even backed, what annoys me most is indiscriminate breeding.
 
Goodness, this really just seems like you're having a bad day and want to take it out on someone.

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I was having a discussion with a friend recently about unregistered horse breeding and her opinion is that it is the same as buying fur and I have to say she has a very valid point.

[/ QUOTE ]In your opinion.[ QUOTE ]
When you buy fur, you have no concept of what quality of life the animal led,

[/ QUOTE ]You've assumed a massive amount about the entire fur industry here. How well acquainted with it are you? Are we talking about the worldwide industry, the practices of a particular country, a particular fur trader, or just the bad ones? [ QUOTE ]
you can't logically claim that you care about the standard of living that animal.

[/ QUOTE ]Why not? That doesn't actually make sense. I want to eat nice meat, but just because I want nice meat doesn't mean that I don't care about the standard of living of the animal. If I wanted a nice deerskin coat, why can I not then care that the deer had an active, healthy, free-range life too? Why can I not select between the fur houses that rear and produce livestock in a suitable manner and opt out of buying from those that don't? I really don't see your point here at all. [ QUOTE ]
Now, you breed two unregistered horses to 'see what we get'

[/ QUOTE ]And here I think the problem is not with 'breeding two unregistered horses', the problem is with 'to see what we get', or in other words, the attitude. You can breed two registered horses with the same attitude and still produce crap. So why bring registration into it when the actual problem is the motivation and the attitude behind it? [ QUOTE ]
the chances of said offspring having poor conformation are higher, the chances of it ending up at the sales is higher, going for meat or being generally neglected are all higher.

[/ QUOTE ]This has been done to death. Read the previous threads on the self-same thing. [ QUOTE ]
So therefore you can't really care that much about the quality of life that that animal will lead.

[/ QUOTE ]If you have the wrong attitude towards horses, i.e. 'let's see what we get', why would it be remarkable that you then don't forward-plan the horse's life? I'm not sure what your point is again.[ QUOTE ]
PS: and don't give me that 'but I'd give it a home for life' bullsh!t because nobody can predict the future and to think you can is increadibly naive.

[/ QUOTE ]Are you aware of just how aggressive this sentence is? This is the bit where I seriously think you have gone from asking for a discussion on a subject to spoiling for an actual fight.[ QUOTE ]
PPS: this is also not a 'all unregistered horses are sh!t' post so don't start posting about how wonderful your unregistered's are.

[/ QUOTE ] And this one isn't much better, but you yourself don't seem to have clearly separated 'attitude towards horses' from 'horse registration', so it's odd for you to then demand that others be more careful.
 
i think the OP means that it is wrong for a person to breed a horse and "see what happens". i agree that this is a totally appaling way to breed horses but there are lots of unregistered horses that excel.

eg. an irish sport horse could be a mix of everything!
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but breeding your mare that is no longer in use with the stallion that your mate owns is wrong to see what pops out.

no foal is guarenteed good confo, but good breeding certinanly helps.
 
PMSL - well put Chillidragon. I think if the OP had specified that it was indescriminate breeding or breeding for the hell of it that was the issue it would have been a lot clearer and there would have been some very different replies.
 
Wasn't only joking around!!!! Plus i didnt state what fur i was actually talking about!!!!!!

To be fair if you have had both registered and unregistered then why make such a post up. Your post reads as though you have a big problem with the which is going to open alot of mixed fews. As many of us may have unregistered horses ourselves which arent the cr*p your talking about. Seriously post likes this pee me off your causing a big debate about something for now bloody reason.

Im going to stop now! But i really don't like this post. And if you are really just in a mood and just trying to get it out of you then please find another way of doing it i would say.
 
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i think the OP means that it is wrong for a person to breed a horse and "see what happens". i agree that this is a totally appaling way to breed horses but there are lots of unregistered horses that excel.

eg. an irish sport horse could be a mix of everything!
tongue.gif
but breeding your mare that is no longer in use with the stallion that your mate owns is wrong to see what pops out.

no foal is guarenteed good confo, but good breeding certinanly helps.

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Thank you... maybe my english just sucks then.
 
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Very good mood today actually. It was just a conversation I'd had, and thought I'd see what people on here thought.

Yes, I have owned registered and unregistered, the point is that I would never breed my mare to a stallion who had no history as you are increasing you chances of getting something tosh. I'm not saying that you are guaranteed to get something tosh, just increasing the chances.
 
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