Breeding and Navicular

[lizzie_liz]

A simple question here but one I have mixed views on. Would you breed from a mare who has navicular?

Mine has mild navicular in her front feet and is LOU but we have since taken her back to competing again. Alot of people have said to us that she should be put in foal as they reckon she would produce a cracking foal. But I am not sure, so what are your views?

 

[Maesfen]

It all depends if it is a hereditary defect or whether it's been brought on by hard work on unsuitable surfaces which has caused concussion.

If it's from hard work, I think if her conformation, temperment and record are all suitable then I might try but I would only use something that has excellent feet and conformation.
I certainly wouldn't breed from her if she is from navicular prone stock.

 

[lizzie_liz]

Prior to her being diagnosed she was on 2 months box rest due to strangles and spent the whole time banging, she also never got turned away as a youngster.

I believe there are already too many naff horses being breed from and the risk to me is too great to put her in foal, but when so many people say to me that I should breed from her you can't help but to look in to it. She has good conformation, paces and temperament but at the end of the day she has navicular and I think that is enough to not breed from even if it isn't genetic

 

[brightmount]

My horse had navicular and I was certain I wouldn't breed from her as I didn't want to perpetuate any faults in future generations. However as time went on and we took her barefoot, she made a total recovery, and it became clear to me that her problem was entirely man-made, as her hooves in their natural state have regained their balance and structure and the problems she had were down to progressive bad farriery, and my lack of experience to notice at that time.

She is now running with the stallion. My EP pointed out how ironic that she is out in the field now, at the point she is capable of full work again, which is where we were before we made the decision to give her some fun this summer and see what came of it.

If a horse was still suffering from navicular (I am assuming syndrome here not disease - I wouldn't breed from a horse that had navicular disease) then I wouldn't inflict the extra weight of pregnancy on that horse, but if the condition has been put right, then why not? It isn't genetic except for circumstances where poor leg conformation has contributed to the condition.

I would say each case should be assessed individually.

 

[seansheep]

If the condition has been accurately diagnosed it can be managed but it can never be 'put right'

So I would suggest that the good reports above show cases where a problem is being managed successfully but the horse hasn't been cured (correct me if you've had post-soundness vet workup to show a reversal of the hoof changes)

Therefore I would still say that I wouldn't breed from a navicular mare (or stallion!)

 

[TURBOBERT]

I would agree with seansheep. Navicular is a weakness and therefore it would be irresponsibly to breed with such a mareIMO. I dont think there is any evidence that it can be an inherited weakness however.

Personally for eventing I would nt breed from a mare that has had tendon problems early in her career either - unless it was caused by a specific accident. Eventers need to be very tough. Interestingly our Advanced eventer is now 18 and back down to ONs and OIs for fun but he has never had a days lameness since we bought him as an unbroken 4 year old. He was bought to do PC events with my then 13 year old. He has good paces and temperament but he dishes and has large flat white feet!. On the plus side he has a light body and strong legs (TB HIS sire/tough small Irish mare with unknown breeding) - if you try to achieve that by selective breeding inevitably you would get a large body on TB legs (one of the main weaknesses in WBs I feel) . All in all it is better to buy a good two or three year old from known sound stock!

 

[Touchwood]

Right - I've just had to join so I can add my two pennies to this thread, as it is something I have personal experience of and have done a huge amout of research in.
seansheep - I disagree with what you have said, but I think your comment may have come from a misunderstanding of what navicular is and/or means. It is commonly understood now that you have navicular 'disease' and navicular 'syndrome' - the disease being one where bony changes are shown on x-rays. Unfortunately the simple fact is many horses have bony changes and show no lameness whatsoever, and most horses with palmar heel pain show no changes on their x-rays - hence this pain must be caused by soft tissue damage. This was exactly the scenario I had with my mare. In her case, I can pinpoint the exact day things started to go wrong with a change in farrier. Navicular syndrome is hugely overdiagnosed and attributed to any horse that has palmar heel pain of unknown origin, when the simple fact is - if you sort their bloody feet out, they will come sound. Barefoot appears to be the best way to do this, as it strengthens and rehabilitates the soft structures in the feet (which were shot to peices in my mare), and allows the foot to develop a correct, natural shape (with correct trimming obviously). There are an increasinly large numbers of horses that are coming sound (and long term) without drugs or remedial shoeing or any other of the sticky plaster methods you can use for so called navicular.
My mare has gone from being crippled to the point of almost being PTS, to over a year later coming out at elementary level and going the best she ever has done. Her feet now look amazing.
The crucial thing, which seansheep did mention is a CORRECT diagnosis - palmar heel pain does not necessarily mean navicular!!!

Back to the original poster anyway - I run a small stud. The honest answer is that for commerical reasons, I would not breed from a navicular mare (there is not enough common knowledge on the differences between disease and syndrome for someone to want to buy the youngstock). For my own personal use (and I will do this when my mare retires from competition), I would breed from a mare who had no bony changes, and had come sound through the treatment I describe above). The key thing is, the mare must not have the conformation that predisposes foot problems - but then no one should be breeding from mares with bad conformation anyway.

 

[mat]

Very well put!! What stud do you run? Mx

 

[Touchwood]

[ QUOTE ]
Very well put!! What stud do you run? Mx

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks.

It is Touchwood Sportshorse, we are still pretty small , breeding sportshorses, specifically dressage (although hopefully will have a very nice eventing foal next year!). www.touchwoodsportshorse.co.uk to be blatently off topic.

 

[mat]

Ah nice site! I used to be based near to you!

 

[lizzie_liz]

Thanks for all you comments, I wouldn't breed from her as I too believe that you shouldn't breed from something that has had lameness problems that may be due to poor conformation.

I only asked as so many people suggest that I should breed from her as she is well put together but if a horse has bad feet you shouldn't breed.