Breeding from a lame horse?

E

Eira

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 February 2008
Messages
11,782
Location
Emmerdale
Visit site
This hasn't been posted to cause a riot and I don't want an argument.

I just want facts and figures and pros/cons of doing it .
And personal experiences (positive and negative)

Oh and pros/cons on letting horses go on 'broodmare loan'


Thanks
smile.gif


ps - If you have a problem , PM me so it doesn't lead to everyone and anyone jumping on the 'for gods sake you evil bitch bandwagon'
 
It depends on why the mare is lame IMHO. If they have had an accident that caused them to become lame, then I don't see a problem with it so long as they can carry a foal without it making their lameness worse, they have a good temperament and reasonable conformation.
If however they have a disease or condition which makes them lame, which is even possibly hereditary, then no, I wouldn't.
 
If the horse has a herredatory thing that causes the lameness, then you should not breed from it. Like awful leg conformation, and very poor feet.

If, however, horse is lame because of accident etc. then I feel it is fine to breed from. for example, if a horse recieves bad kick etc.
 
Thanks everyone .. I'm in a complete mess and i'm not really sure what to think over it all ..

I'm waiting for the vet to ring me (will be tomorrow now) and give me his opinion on it all ..
 
I agree with the school of thought that it depends why the horse is lame.

If it's down to something hereditary, like OCD, or down to poor conformation, then no, it's not sensible or responsible to breed from them.

However, if the lameness is down to injury, or a non hereditary condition (such is the case with Be's arthritis) then as long as all else about the mare makes her suitable to breed from, and she is sound enough to handle the extra weight, then yes, it's ok.
 
Here's what I can think of
smile.gif


Pros
Gives lame mare a job
Could potentially breed a good foal for you/ to sell
If a genetic health condition was passed on, as long as it was nothing obvious while a foal (I'm thinking arthritis, navicular, things that show up when put under pressure to work) you can sell as a youngster and make some money (immoral, but common!)

Cons
Potentially expensive
High risk of breeding a foal with a hopeless future
Managing the lameness and managing a pregnant mare/mare with foal at foot might be contradictory and difficult (I'm thinking box rest, painkillers, etc)
 
I've bred from my little mare - she had a slab fracture in her hock that took a long time, 4 years, to heal due to degenerative joint disorder, this isn't all her problems but the main bit!

Part of it was hereditary and she has bloomin' awful feet but our vet advised us on a breed to choose for the sire, she's half TB and the rest is a bit of a pick 'n' mix
grin.gif
we chose an Irish Draught as it had a much lower chance than other breeds of the foal inheriting her problems. Apparently warmbloods are the worst for inheriting stuff. 2 and a half years on we have a healthy foal or whatever you call it at that age
tongue.gif
and a mare in her second year of full work. Basically it's turned out fantastic and I'm now only allowed mares for this exact reason. In the long term we will never be able to sell my mare as she has several problems still these don't affect her performance but rather than sell her we will keep her as a brood mare.
 
Another pro, depending on why mare is lame but time off to have a foal may give her time to come sound again from lameness. (Sorry haven't been following lately so don't know if this would apply to you).
 
As with the others I'd breed from a horse that was lame due to an accident but never from a horse for other reasons.
The reasons why are mainly emotional. I've got a gorgeous gelding who looks perfect from the outside but rubbish foot conformation means he's now lame as his collaterals were under too much pressure. If he was a mare I'd never consider breeding as poor conformation leads to so many problems. Also I think if I bred a foal from a lame horse and then the foal went on to have problems, regardless of whether they were related, I'd never forgive myself. I think it's probably setting yourself up for unnecessary heart ache.
It's a difficult one because it would give you a 'reason' to keep a lame horse but I don't think I would consider it. I'd always be worried and paranoid. Also I'd be worried how the mare would cope during pregnancy.
Finally you can't guarantee what a foal will turn out like so it might completely different to the mare temperament wise so I'd rather buy something but that's a personal choice.
My retired mare is currently nannying my new yearling who I bought rather than bred. It's given her a job and keeps her busy.
 
prob only if it was a traumatic accident and then only if the mare was very very nice.

I have lost count of the number of times people have suggested that we have a foal out of the palo but for so many reasons it would be a bad idea, lack of facilities and the mares confo is pretty shocking so although she is a good RC allrounder I don't think she should be passing her genes on.
 
depends why the horse is lame
..poor conformation,navicular etc....i wouldnt breed from..but id consider it on a horse put out of action from mechanical lameness from a kick etc
i put navicular in with conformation as even though the syndrome itself isnt meant to be hereditary, the underlying cause of the problem is usually conformational (genarally small feet and straight pasterns)and this can be inherited

if the lameness was from an accident and the mare was otherwise fine in temperment,confo etc id consider it only if she didnt need pain medication in daily life..
if the mare was already out of action due to pain when being riden i wount breed as to add the weight of a foal unless the mare could be made comfortable seems like a bad idea.
If she cannot be made pain-free before breeding, it would not be fair to her to breed her

PRO breeding lame mare
Gives the mare a job,
possibility of a good foal down the line,
Many lame mares have made excellent mothers and passed on good bloodlines.
Owners is not losing as much money on a lame mare as foals can be sold,
choosing a stallion by conformation to complement the mares poor points can decreses the chances of poor conformation in the foal

CONS
possibility of hereditary lameness or poor conformation in the foal is increased
Pregnancy may agravate lameness in the mare..in extreme cases it can lead to founder
can be difficult to medicate a pregnant mare and to treat a lame mare with foal at foot

you might get more info on the pros and cons if you put this in the vet section and more real life storys from the breeding section...
 
If the mare was sound would she actually be worth breeding from. I dont know the horse involved - does it have excellent breeding, a serious competition history or superb confo?

IMO its time we started to really think about the quality of horses we are breeding in the UK. There are far too many here already of dubious worth.

For what it costs to breed a foal from a mediocre mare its more cost effective and makes more sense to spend the money on a good foal from someone elses mare.
 
I bred from my 13.2hh mare when she went lame,not realising I was passing the defective gene on,but at least I had bred them for my own use and when we realised stopped breeding altogether and all 3 mares lived to a ripe old age, useless of course but they didn't know that.But I didn't get much riding as I couldn't afford to buy one in until I had my old gelding and mare put down and that was a youngster that I had to break in. If you want to keep the foal go ahead if you want to sell think twice
 
We had a lovely King of Diamonds granddaughter with very nice ISH breeding, good conformation and a decent comp record (competed BSJA, and open team chased). She was injured in the field and permanently lame (only 1/10) but didn't have the patience just to hack so vet suggested breeding from her. We considered it for ages but couldn't really have afforded it and then would have had 4 horses instead of 3! So in the end we sold her to a lovely home as a brood mare, which is an option if the mare is good enough. Know Sea_of_Dreams on here did a very similar thing with her lovely ISH mare.
TBH if mare not really up to being sold/loaned to a decent breeder to use, then maybe not really ideal to breed from.....
I never bred from my mare as she has various degenerative joint problems and much as I would now love to have her daughter/son, it worked out much better for us to sell OH's much better bred/put together mare and buy our 3 year old as we knew exactly what we were getting with him!!
 
I have done precisely that this year. I hadn't planned to put Emerald back in foal until next year but she injured her stifle in the spring resulting in prolonged box rest and a recommended 6 month rest. The advice from the vet and physio was to use the time to put her back in foal, with the proviso that covering would have to be AI because of the injury.
However, she is a proven broodmare and was well on the mend before she went to stud.
 
I dont think that making money from selling the foal is really a pro. If you have to pay livery, plus stud fees, vets etc you will struggle to make any money.

I thought about breeding from my mare for the last two years as she had been lame, this was caused by being totally hammered as a youngster - winning foxhunters as a 4 yo for example. But I never did it as when it came down to it I really did not want a foal.

So do you really want a foal?
 
If you were going to keep the foal, depending on the reason for the lameness, and your mare was of good quality and temperament then yes - maybe. There are so many things that can go wrong, I'd still tend to buy a youngster from someone else.
If the mare is lame because of back problems, or something in the pelvic area, then I definitely wouldn't breed from her. I know it's hard, but I have a top bloodlines mare in just that situation, and she is retired, I wouldn't dream of breeding from her.
Good luck with the decision.
 
I agree with those who have said only if the lameness is as the result of an injury and not related in any way to conformation. There are far too many foals bred from less than perfect mares, resulting in the poor creatures that are seen at low end auctions all around the country.
I would also only breed from any mare, if I had my own facilities to do so. IMO trying to breed whilst at livery is not a good idea, very few livery yards are set up to accomodate breeding.
 
depends on why it's lame, if it has an injury that's down to poor conformation then no, I wouldn't. If it was an accidental injury and she had a good temprement then yes it would be worth looking into. Breeding a foal is hard work, exillerating, worrying, time consuming.....but a very rewarding experience if it all goes right!!
 
I wouldnt breed from any mare, lame or sound unles it has excellent conformation, without any obvious "problems", and a good temperament. I don't mean a perfect horse, but one which wouldnt cause problems if it passed any part of itself onto its offspring. Therefore anything that is lame for an unexplained reason, has bad conformation or a questionable temperament, I wouldnt even consider.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldnt breed from any mare, lame or sound unles it has excellent conformation, without any obvious "problems", and a good temperament. I don't mean a perfect horse, but one which wouldnt cause problems if it passed any part of itself onto its offspring. Therefore anything that is lame for an unexplained reason, has bad conformation or a questionable temperament, I wouldnt even consider.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, and also with what spaniel said.

In my opinion, the reason there are so many screwed up horses in this country is because so many people who don't really know what they are doing breed from mediocre horses just for the sake of it.

There are lots of studs breeding and training really good quality youngstock, so I really don't think there is any reason for anyone to breed unless they are really knowledgeable enough to bring on a youngster, and have a mare that is of excellent quality.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top