breeding is such a complicated learning process.

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henryhorn

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www.narramorehorses.blogspot.com
We've bred horses for donkey's years and until the last couple, lost hardly any foals at all.
The last couple of years we've had not one but two foals with joint ill, and both to the same mare. neither case happened soon after birth, and we have always been thorough about treating the mare and foal as soon after birth as we can, so we just put it down to bad luck.
We had a horse collected today by an experienced breeder for transport to his new home, and on talking about William he asked if we had a GG test done on the foals after birth.
I'd never heard of it, and he explained it shows the plasma level in the foal and if it needs extra colostrum to help immunity.
Of course I researched it on here asap, and think we have discovered why two of that particular mare's foals both got joint ill. She does run milk a few hours before foaling, but always appeared to have plenty for her foals, but I bet what's happened is both foals failed to get enough protection as a result.
From now on we will have all her foals tested right away, and if necessary spend the money to give the foals plasma.
It's a quick summary of what I read, and of course I'll have to read a lot more to understand it properly, but with any luck it may prevent a William saga again..
Do you get your foals tested for this? I'd be interested to see who does.
 
We test the Igg on the TB foals and of the others anything that we might have a query about either looking premature or mare lacking or running milk excessively.
A high percentage of foals with low Igg levels are TB.
We have never had a non TB one with a low Igg level in fact over the years we have only ever had one TB foal low (which was premature ) and one TB foal that was borderline (bad foaling oxygen starved)which had plasma transfusions and were fine.
 
We lost a foal years ago through joint ill and after that found out it was preventable. We dont test everyone (although reading some articles perhaps we should as apparently they dont have to run milk to be low) But test more than we dont and always foals from outside mares.
 
We dont test all ours but perhaps we should, as you just never know. I do know of several breeders who automatically milk the mare (besides the foal suckling) to make sure the foal gets enough of the colostrum.

We do that automatically with the lambs born each year (i.e. give extra colostrum) to prevent joint ill, as a preventative measure.
 
Yes the plasma is given as a transfusion.
The last one that we did was amazing as foal was a slightly dummy foal from hypoxia during the birth process.
In 24 hrs he was amazing just leaping around having had no suck reflex and unable to stand at birth.
 
You don't HAVE to give plasma! IGg tests are standard here, but so is testing the mares colostrum straight after foaling and if it is poor, then donor colostrum is given. As a large stud, we collect and store approx. 400mls of colostrum from mares that have a good count. The quality of the colostrum can be guaged in 2 ways: 1 with a Colostrometer or 2 with Spectrometer. The Colostrometer is the more affordable option and I have one of my own now. The Spectrometer is by far easier to use, but is approx. £250! In the States we only ever used a Colostrometer, so I'm very happy using one, even if it is a tad fiddly. The Colostrometer is a cylindrical perspex tube, that you fill with 50mls of distilled water, before you lower a small vile containing the collected colostrum you have collected and NO AIR into it. The vile has a metal rod protruding form it that has numbered notches up the length of it and the lower/heavier the colostrum is, the better it is! Anything over 5 is good for the just born foal, anything over 6 is worth collecting and freezing. For the Spectrometer, all you have to do is dab a spot of colostrum onto the slide and read the reading against a light and wash and dry it when your done.

For those of us who don't have lots of broodmares and are not able to collect and store colostrum on a regular basis, you can buy powdered colostrum, not just mares milk.
 
A lot of this, no-one has told me before; not even my vet. And of course, when you NEED to know- its too late.

So what would you all consider standard procedure at a birth?

What's considered appropriate, nowdays, for disinfecting the stump of the umbilical cord, for example?
 
i have to go and do my horse now, as I have to be back at work at 3.30pm and I'd like to see them in daylight for a change (bloody winter nights). Shall I put up a post later with all the kind of things I have had to do in the different places I have worked and what I personally do, having learnt from these places? Alot of it, most peeps on here will know/do anyways, but if it helps one person.... Also others can add to it!
 
We had a very ill little foal last year with joint ill - the infection went straight to her growth plate. Her navel had been treated with hibiscrub which was what we were advised is now the thing to treat it with. Her immunity levels etc were all checked while in hospital & were high & good. Her navel was scanned & was clear. The vet advised us that joint ill can occur through even just a tiny hole in the foal lung or stomach so even if you do everything possible it can still occur sadly

Luckily our foal pulled through okay unlike our bank balance
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If you can find the time to do this I would be very grateful. I have heard so many conflicting things, and I'm aware that my knowledge is out of date.

My feelings are that often we do things to 'help' because we feel helpless and it feels better to be doing something rather than nothing, and I'm pretty sure that some of the things that I learnt, not TOO long ago (e.g. generous helpings of iodine based disinfectant for naval stubs, or routine dosings of liquid paraffin just in case of retained meconium) were potentially damaging.

On the other hand, doing nothing is all very well until something goes wrong and you find too late you could have prevented it.

I'm coming back to breeding after a gap, so I really ought to update my knowledge.

Even vets don't always seem to be as clued up as you'd expect, and it would be good to hear how experienced 'foaling-downers' do it.

Would be interested in anything anyone can tell me about the herpes virus innoculations, too. Is there a downside to these as regards other stock?

Hibiscrub, eh?...
 
We don't IgG all of ours, but do if there is any reason for thinking it necessary - eg if the mare has run milk, foal takes a while to drink etc etc.

There are a few simple things which can be done to try and minimise infection, but of course they are often thought of with hindsight. I think the "maternity unit" should be kept as clean as possible as a basic starter - and it makes me weep to see people shaking straw out over the bed of a newborn foal. I know foaling is messy and the bed gets wet, but the dust and spores in the straw are hardly the things you want a new baby to be inhaling - and especially not to be getting in via the umbilicus. Having the straw already loose outside the stable to lay down gently would be a vast improvement in management technique.
 
My foal was tested because the mare ran milk for 24 hours before foaling - my vet likes to test if the owner agrees anyway, so I would have had it done as routine. She was tested 24 hours after birth and her levels were in the marginal zone - not good, but not really low. The vet gave me the choice as to whether I would like her infused and I did - I'm glad I did as the mare came down with a uterus infection the next day, and I would hate to think what would have happened with all the pus around - the mare had to be flushed out for three days and luckily did not get toxic laminitis as we caught it so early.
 
Might be worth considering stripping out the colostrum from mares running it before birth and feeding it back by bottle after birth, providing of course it is of quality?
 
I went to a fantastic seminar by Prof Knottenbelt and other brilliant speakers on foal illness & breeding - enough to put you off for life. He said as per Ashbank's comments that the foaling area has to be as hygenic as possible and the ideal foaling environment is a clean pasture. The crucial time is from when the foal is born to when it takes its first suckle as this is the time when it has no protection. The mare should have clean teats. There was so much interesting info - if you ever get the chance to go to one of his talks I would highly recommend it.
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