Breeding Survey

[KarynK]

Prompted by the seasonal questions of when do you think she will foal etc. It occurred to me that all the books containing foaling statistics, average gestations, foaling times etc are all some years old and based on figures from the Thoroughbred industry.

I Thought it might be interesting to gather some information from forum users from a variety of breeds/types, and with climate change which would give everyone the opportunity to look at the averages from the horses bred by members and not just pure TB mares (though I have one of those!!!).

We could look at things like how many days from visible bagging up to foaling, gestation times according to time of year. Foaling in or out and general weather conditions, are mares foaling out more in tune with weather conditions?. The full moon thing, do more mares foal then? The passing of afterbirth and retained placentas. How many mares wax up before foaling or run milk. You could look at birthing problems and objectively look at fertility rates / foaling heat cover successes and average stud fees across breeds and types.

You could also look at the country of origins of horses being bred and answer the question are people using British Based Stallions? All sorts of things really and it would give answers to all sorts of questions, there are enough on here to make it statistially significant as well! I would HAVE to add something about colour in there or I wont do it!!!!!

It would take some analysis and I am happy to plug away at that as long as no one wants it yesterday ( only my boss gets away with that one and probably far too much!)

Have not really thought of the logistics as yet but I could set up an email address to send out a spreadsheet template for people to fill in and return ?

Just some thoughts really and some feedback if people would participate or have any burning questions about breeding they would like answered. Happy to pen a report on it all with pretty graphs and stuff so maybe H&H or someone with a website could host the paperwork, the data I would keep separate but as I say no names and also I have no real contacts with the sports horse world and no agenda other than I must be mad and I put it down to foalwatch!!

So what do you think?

 

[TangoCurly]

That sounds like a fab idea.

 

[yethersgill]

Think its a great idea!

 

[Alec Swan]

KarynK,

what do I think? I think that it's an excellent idea. I also think that you're very brave. However worthwhile, and it must be just that, do you realise just what you're taking on?!! You were the one who used the word "mad"!!

What you are planning has the potential to assist a great many breeders, and in a positive way. Very well done. I'm going to send you a PM.

Alec.

 

[lillith]

I don't breed so I'm not likely to be much help but I just wanted to offer my support for the idea, there is not enough good information out there for the horse industry. Things tend to end up based on individual case studies which is interesting but not really scientificly valid.

 

[lucydelaroche]

Fantastic idea & as everyone above has said very much needed. Definitely a huge undertaking though!

There is a member on here, sorry not sure of name since the recent re-jig, who does a lot of showjump pedigree analysis using Excel. Might be worth seeing if he has any suitable spreadsheets already set up that you could just put your data into - a bit cheeky I know but if you don't ask & all that! Anyway we would all stand to gain from your results & I'm sure he would be as interested as the rest of us.

Good luck!

 

[KarynK]

It seems like its a yes then. I must confess it's not the first time I have done something like this, so I was planning a spreadsheet set-up as it is familiar to most people and easily transported into a database straight from the spreadsheet.

I will either build an access DB or use pivot tables in excel as I am intending keeping the data as straight forward as possible. Toyed with the idea of pick lists but that can make the spreadsheet memory to big for sending backwards and forwards so will probably use notations on the spreadsheet I send out and ask people to stick to the alternatives suggested wherever possible (yes I know they all wont, but some will!!!).

This will save me a huge amount of time in tidying up the data and mean that I can concentrate on with the analysis. What I will do on tonight's foal watch is pen down some ideas on questions and answers and post them then we can have a virtual brainstorm (yes you can now call it that again, I checked with the political correctness squad!). It will also give everyone the heads up on what they need to record now as we will soon really be in the swing of it!

 

[GinnieRedwings]

Absolutely great idea... and perhaps you can get a research grant to do a PhD and not have to deal with impatient bosses anymore

Anyway, count me in... And also, thanks for the refractometer and test strip tips. Has your mare foaled yet, or has the sudden cold snap set her back?

 

[angrovestud]

Oh KarynK
This idea is great will you also be looking at covering and bad weather and hormones we have had great success in sunshine when the same mares failed to get in foal when it was cold and wet, we also had loss's of foals early on I think due to weather changes.
I have a girl now who is 10 days overdue this time but 2 years ago when to her so called due date but that was July foaling she had a year off and was due on march 21st.
only just started to wax up today.

 

[Irishlife]

Ah yes, the full moon It does indeed play its role in these parts.

You are a brave woman and I would be happy to supply data but are you restricting it to a geographical area because I am in the west of Ireland. Would love to be on your email list anyway just to see your findings.

Well done.

 

[Holly831]

Fantastic idea!

Count me in please

It's a massive undertaking but so worthwhile not just to HHF users but to a much wider audience.

I was wondering if H&H would maybe include an article for you or even a link to your questionaire?

 

[holiday]

Count me in too!!!!

 

[Beatrice5]

I think it's a fab idea and I'll certainly fill it in and add my one and only experience I will help if I can just give me a shout. I know someone who runs a company that does data analysis and his daughters have a horse so I could maybe twist his arm into helping if needed.

 

[charliesarmy]

I think it is a brilliant idea...and could provide a lot of information and maybee just maybe a formula to save many sleepless nights

 

[KarynK]

Argh lost my reply !!! Ginnie you are welcome my PH strips arrived today I was curious, she started at 8.5 and is now 6 which according to some that means soon, I hope so it's cold even the dogs want to cuddle up which is unusual for the thugs! Her calcium is up to 250 and refract today started at 18.5 and is now 26, so maybe. She spent last night stuffing her face and snoring alternately snuggled up in 3/4 of a round bale of straw and was probably a lot warmer than me!

Angrove - probably the ideas mean the list is growing by the minute! Will post it soon and we can chew it over!

Irish life in the interest of détente and to make up for the last 100 years or more I should thin we can make you a honorary Brit, as long as you promise not to win too many races at Cheltenham next year!!!

 

[magic104]

I always thought it would be interesting if it were possible to hold data about horses that include things like retained testies, & any medical problems like kissing spines etc. If all this info was collated, it might give a better idea to what could be classed as hereditary.

 

[angrovestud]

I love to get involved in the Colour stats I have some thoughts to expression or not here, very exciting KarynK looking forward to this.

 

[KarynK]

Right after another fruitless night these are the general headings I have penned so far I am working on some suggested answers for them so have a read and see what you think and if there is a burning question that needs asking that I have missed? Its hard to get them on here as they are on the sheet but here goes!

A fair number of questions but if we gather all this now we can ask all sorts of questions of the data like is there a link between birthing problems and breed /type, size of stallion, method of birthing, place of birthing, feed. For stallion owners What we are breeding, how we are breeding, when are we breeding what stallions we are using, what price we are willing to pay and what terms we like!!! What is the average gestation, what is the average time of the passing of the afterbirth, how many mares needed assistance with this and birthing, etc etc!!!


Conception
Date of last Live cover, AI or ET - Method of covering used - Embryo Transfer? - Problems conceiving - General Weather at time of problems conceiving


Parental Information

Sire Country of origin - Sire Breed registry or Type - Sire Graded or Licensed - Sire Proven or Unproven in Competition and or offspring - Principle reason for choosing Sire - Height of sire (hh) - Stud fee range - Dam Country of Origin - Dam Breed registry or Type - Mare Graded or Approved - Dam Proven or Unproven in Competition and or offspring - Height of Dam (hh)

Colours

Base colour Foal - Additional Colour - Base colour - Dam - Additional Colour Dam - Base colour - Sire - Additional Colour Sire


Type and purpose of offspring

Breed registry or Type - Expected Height at Maturity (hh) - Intended Purpose - Private breeder to Keep or Sell - Commercial breeder to Keep or Sell - Inbreeding linebreeding if any - If yes was it part of the mating plan?

About the Mare

Approx age of Mare in years at conception - Maiden mare - Approx number of foals bred from this mare - Any prior birthing problems - If Yes Please give brief details of prior problems

About the birth

Approximate date Bagging up began - Monitoring Used - Number of nights on foal watch - Muscle slackening visible - Waxing on teats - Location of foaling - Weather in area at time of birth - Was Birth Witnessed? - Visible unusual behaviour - Problems with the Birth - Malpresentation Problems resolved by - Mortality (the one we all dread) - Brief reason for Mortality If know - Date of Birth - Time or Approx time of birth - Time Birth to passing afterbirth - Time Birth to Foal standing - Time Birth to Foal suckling

Post Birth

Vet check - Sex - Foal health - Mare health - Mare to be recovered - If No - Foaling heat covering - Method - Number of attempts at conception


Conception
Date of last Live cover, AI or ET - Method of covering used - Embryo Transfer? - Problems conceiving - General Weather at time of problems conceiving - Mare body condition score at conception - Vet check before Mating

Parent Info
Sire Country of origin - Sire Breed registry or Type - Sire Graded or Licensed - Sire Proven or Unproven in Competition and or offspring - Principle reason for choosing Sire - Height of sire (hh) - Stud fee range - Concession to fee - Stud Fee Terms - Dam Country of Origin - Dam Breed registry or Type - Mare Graded or Approved - Dam Proven or Unproven in Competition and or offspring - Height of Dam (hh)

Colours
Base colour Foal - Additional Colour - Base colour Dam - Additional Colour Dam - Base colour Sire - Additional Colour Sire

Type and purpose of offspring
Breed registry or Type - Expected Height at Maturity (hh) - Intended Purpose - Private breeder to Keep or Sell - Commercial breeder to Keep or Sell - Inbreeding linebreeding if any - If yes was it part of the mating plan?

About the Mare
Approx age of Mare in years at conception - Maiden mare - Approx number of foals bred from this mare - Any prior birthing problems - If Yes Please give brief details of prior problems - Diet 1st two trimesters - Diet Final Trimester

About the birth
Approximate date Bagging up began - Monitoring Used - Number of nights on foal watch - Muscle slackening visible - Waxing on teats - Location of foaling - Mare moved prior to foaling - Weather in area at time of birth - Was Birth Witnessed? - Visible unusual behaviour - The Birth - Malpresentation Problems resolved by - Mortality (the one we all dread) - Brief reason for Mortality If know - Date of Birth - Time or Approx time of birth - Time Birth to passing afterbirth - Was medical assistance required with afterbirth - Time Birth to Foal standing - Time Birth to Foal suckling - Umbilical Stump treated with - IG/ Refractometer results - Herbal or Homeopathic remidies used

Post Birth
Vet check - Foal ill health post birth - Mare ill health post birth - Mare wormed within 18 hours of foaling with Ivermectin? - Foal scoured at foaling heat? - Mare diet Post foaling - Foal diet - Sex - Foal health - Mare health - Mare to be covered again - If No Reason - Foaling heat covering - Method - Number of attempts at conception - Problems conceiving - General Weather at time of problems conceiving - Proposed Worming Program

 

[daisalph]

Yes - very happy to supply data

 

[holiday]

I would also be happy!!

 

[angrovestud]

very happy to supply data

 

[linali]

happy to help if I can.

 

[pointersrus]

Please count me in this is a great idea and I always keep a basic note/record of my mares changes throughout their pregnancies particularly towards full term and I have a record of them all for the past few years. This allows me to compare notes on a particular mare from year to year in the hope that I might have a better idea of when she will foal although each pregnancy is very different even when mated to the same stallion.

I have come across recently on a breeding website, a really usefull form for recording all of these changes daily and in a more organised manner than I have done previously and so I am using this on a mare who is "due" 21st April. I suspect she will go over as she has done the past two pregnancies, also due in April, but interestingly she always has foaled "bang on time" with later due foals!

ps she is a TB

 

[KarynK]

Progress report, am just finishing off the spreadsheet and have opened an email account to send it out from, so not long now! it will be really interesting to see what comes out the other end and we can answer questions from our own data!

pointersrus I too wonder if most early spring pregnancies are longer than the summer ones, with the data we might be able to adjust "Due Dates" for earlier foaling mares it's quite exciting! The thing is all the data so far has been on racing breeding where the mares are largely foaling in Jan and Feb so this might well change averages considerably for other horse foaling at a more sensible time of year. (No offence TB's but if the idiot bloke had chosen a 1st March birthday for the TB you wouldn't all be rugging up and switching on lights at Christmas!

Ginnie – Oh er Dr !!! That would be good wouldn’t it, did think about doing a PHD a few years ago when I did an MA course but never got round to it, might have a little look!!!

Magic as you probably know I do like my genetics and would love to do something like that at a later date when these things become more obvious. I often wonder if Anabaa sired any wobblers as he himself was one? The trouble is that its a delicate area with some breeders unwilling to publish that sort of data understandably, especially with retained testicles. I am sure there are some monorchids and even cryptorchidis at stud that have been operated on and some stallions that are prone to throwing it. Though with the majority of horses being produced for a career as a gelding, this does not really come to the fore.

I know in dogs it is considered a genetic defect and no responsible breeder will use a stud dog with retention, though the heredity mechanism is poorly understood. It is more common in purebreds and 75% of those with retained testes/testicle are monorchids with twice as many of those retaining the right testicle than the left, which I find interesting. Retention in dogs is associated with tumours.

Oh and I've purchased my full moon chart too, good old ebay!

 

[Enfys]

I missed this, would be happy to fill in info, but I am in Canada, will this make a difference?

 

[Ladylina83]

I'd like to help to as I think you are right there are so many influences

Keep me posted please and best of luck with this

(Only one I can't answer is I haven't got the foggyest what the weather was like when she was last covered as I just left them to it)

 

[KarynK]

Enfys that shouldn't be a problem same principles possibly more snow! Angrove is beta testing for me at the moment so should have it nearly right very soon and I'll get it out to everyone!

Ah Ladylina had forgotten about that scenario, leave em too it, will have to add an option!