Breeding

K

Kelly1982

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 January 2005
Messages
3,660
Location
Kent
Visit site
What months of the year would you consider being the latest to breed in??

Would you consider putting a very immature 5yo in foal??

How difficult would it be to get a mare back to fitness again after having a foal and would you have to start from scratch??

Now i know nothing about breeding so any advise would be good.

My reason for asking is that this is something that i am seriously considering!! At this moment in time i am finding it harder and harder to compete due to having no transport and i am only getting to go out about once every 3 months if i am lucky. I cant afford to buy my own transport at the mo as i have just forked out for a course to become a driving instructor so have a lot going on in my life at the moment with training, working full time etc. Also about the time that i am hoping to put her in foal i am planning to set up my own business so wont have a lot of time for riding anyway.

Once the foal is born hopefully my business with be established and i will have a lot more time and money on my hands.

My other reason being is that i dont think Senza will make the show jumper i want her to be but i cant bear to part with her so am hoping to breed her with soemthing with good SJing lines (she has dressage lines) so i have the best of both worlds. Also i think it may help her to grow up a bit.

This is all just a dream at the mo and i am going to wait and see how she does through the summer and what my financial situation is like at the end of the year.

I do know breeding can be quite expensive but obvioulsy any advise would be good and if you all think i am mad and wasting a good competition horse then feel free to say
grin.gif
 
What months of the year would you consider being the latest to breed in?? JULY/Aug really as you have to take into account how old they are going to be when winter sets in. I would rather not go past June.

Would you consider putting a very immature 5yo in foal?? YES if the mare is good enough confirmation/temperment wise

How difficult would it be to get a mare back to fitness again after having a foal and would you have to start from scratch??
DEPENDS on how fit she was to start with. But there is no reason why the mare cant come into gentle work after foaling. We have ridden in the school, with the foal being held or given a small feed a month after. But like anything it will depend on the mare, how easy a foaling it was, how happy the foal is to be kept out the way while the mare is working. At 4mths I was able to leave one foal in the box for an hour without any issues. But she could see another horse next door.
 
Sorry to say i see no point in breeding from a unproven mare with the 'wrong' breeding.
Breeding can be incredibly expensive and a risk to your mare.
If you are going to breed a foal concider the cost of two and the fact you may not like what you get.
But she should be fine to breed at 5, talk to your vet and invest in a good book that covers breeding issues.
Bear i mind from conception to birth to 4 YO will cost you in the region of 4k baring unforseens. sorry to be negative but thats my thoughts on it.
 
If money/time really is that tight I wouldn't do it. May sound harsh but if you haven't got time for her and you honestly don't believe she is the right horse for you I would sell her.
frown.gif


But only you know the answer to that question
 
if you cant afford to compete, there is no way you will be able to afford to breed from her
crazy.gif


Just to give you an idea, ive forked out just over £1000 SO FAR, thats on the frozen semen (shipping/fee/storing at vets/hiring container) and approx 3scans.

I still havent had the bill for the AI - four nights at the vets, 2 scans a day, 2 hormone injections. This will probably be around £1000 aswel, if not more.

Breeding isnt something you take on lightly, there are more scans to come aswell if she is in foal. If she dosent take first time, then you have to pay the whole lot again.
 
If you can't afford transport or to compete then you really cannot afford to be breeding from her.
If you are struggling timewise and financially then turn her away for a year or sell her.
 
No i dont think you sound harsh!!! I asked for opinions as its just an idea at the mo and obvioulsy something i would have to look into a lot deeper.

Money isn't tight as in i am not struggling to keep her or to compete and have lessons etc but i just dont have the money to fork out in one lump sum to buy a horse box at the mo due to other financial commitments. Hopefully that will change by the end of the year so obvioulsy i will have to wait til then before i decide anything.

Also i do have time for her and she is still ridden every night and even once i start to set up my own business i will still make time its just as i will have a lot going on i may not be able to spend as much time with her as i would like at first.

She is partly the reason for me doing all this as i want to work around her rather than her work around my job if that makes sense its just at first i will need all the work i can get to make a name for myself.

Like you said as well the other option was to give her the summer and see how she is going and then think about selling her which i really dont want to do as i love her in every other way its just deep down i dont think she is up to the job but i want to give her a chance to prove herself first.

Got a lot of thinking to do over the summer i think
crazy.gif
 
I can afford to compete and i can afford to run transport i just cant afford to buy it at the mo as i cant afford the one lump sum til other things have been paid up.
 
So you could afford £2k straight off to pay for the stud fee and first vets bill? Then if she didnt take, another £1k, and perhaps even another after that? Im not meaning to sound harsh, just trying to make you aware that you dont pay the vets bill off in bits, its one LARGE bill
 
Assuming everything goes to plan and she takes first time:

Stallion fee - £400 to £1000
initial Vets/stud fees - £300 if lucky
routine scans - £150

so at the bare minimum you are looking at £1000, realistically this could be £2000

not to mention the increased risk to your horse at foaling, making sure you have somewhere suitable to keep mare and foal etc. etc.

At the end of it seza may still not do the job you want and you will have 5 years from now before you have a horse you may possibly be out competing on ....

I'm sorry but I don't see any logic in it anywhere!
 
But wouldn't that depend on what stud horse you used and the prices?? Also my vets do let you pay things off in installments if need be.

As i said i know nothing about breeding so would have to have a serious think about it first and really read into it. It was just an idea so may not be one i could take once i looked into it properly anyway.

Thats why i asked for opinions as like you say its not a decision to take lightly and nothing i want to rush into.
 
Obviously it depends how much the semen you buy is, and how long she stays at the vets etc.

Bloss's stud fee was £650, then £300 for transport and another £100 for the container as i went direct to the stud. If i had gone through an english company to do it it wouldve only been £700, however they couldn provide the stallion i wanted at the time i wanted so i had to do it direct.

Like B&J says, scans are around £150 a time - Bloss had 7 scans when she stayed at the vets, 3 before she went, and she spent 3 nights/3days at the vets. Im lucky in that my vets is 5mins down the road so i hack her down there.

Youve also got to bare in mind if things go wrong during the pregnacy, at birth, or afterwards. My friend ended up spending over £4000 BEFORE the foal was even born as there were loads of problems. (thats including stud fee tho).

If you send her to stud its even more expensive..........
 
It was just an idea that i thought would be a good solution for us and thats why i come on here to ask advise from people who have more experience than me and obvioulsy everyone reckons it will be a mistake so point taken!!

I dont know why people have to get so defensive all the time!! I was only asking for advise!!!
 
Thanks PG thats very helpful and put things into perspective a lot better!!! I knew it would be expensive but obvioulsy i didn't know that facts and figures hence the post.
 
thats ok, i hope i didnt sound too harsh! lots of people think breeding is a good idea, and start it al off not realising what they are getting themselves into financially.

Would you really never sell her? I know its difficult, but if shes not going to do what you want then surely it would be the better solution? x
 
I would like to say I have never paid 150 for a scan, so awfully gratefull I dont have your vets!! I paid for a package deal that was nothing like quoted on here, so I think it depends on your vets. It is expensive, no doubt about that, & especially if the mare does not take 1st time.
 
Well thats why i came on here as like i said i know nothing about breeding so wanted to know peoples experiences etc first.

Selling her is going to be a really difficult decision for me if it does come to it. She is perfect for me in every single way except the jumping and that is after all what i brought her for!! She does love it i'm just not sure she is going to have the scope to jump the heights i want and i have got a feeling that even getting her half way there is going to be bl**dy hard work. I am going to work really hard with her through the summer though and make a decision then. She still has a lot of growing up to do so i dont want to let her go and then she suddenly releases all this potential that her greeness was holding back if that makes sense. I would be devastated if that happened.
 
TBHI wouldn't. If she's not up to the job already, yes she has lines, but so have lots of other horses. And it is expensive and time consuming and I would think you might actually need transport?(not sure on this one but for vets etc.?)
sorry if it's not what you want to hear.
 
Parisienne_Girl do you really mean scans are £150 each time? i'm breeding from my mares and have been told by the stud its about £40 a time - even if you add on call out etc still wouldnt make it over £100 here.
Kelly another thing to do is talk to your vet re cost. i know a lot of studs do their own vet packages but these often end up more expensive. also look at stud pages to see how long they want your mare there - some want the mare there for a few scans whereas if its a local stud - could be cheaper to take her home and have her scanned there later where you may pay less livery.
the studs i looked at varied soooo much in their livery fees so thats another thing to consider.
if i was you, i would do some of the things others have mentioned, talk to vets, buy a good book or a few off ebay, look around at stud websites so you get an idea how cost vary a lot and if theres a stallion you reallllly like, try talking to the stud owner etc?
it doesnt sound IMO like a terrible idea you are suggesting, and only you yourself know your finances so go do some more research
smile.gif
(ie stallion shopping!!!
laugh.gif
)
 
The first one was more expensive as she had tests, not sure about the second one. Im down south - everything is more expensive here!!

My vets is one of the top AI centres in the country - probably why its more!!!!
grin.gif


The scans when she stayed there will only be around £40 a time, and she had 2-3 a day, to check when was the right time etc.
 
Personally I would say dont do it Kelly. My stud fee was £600 and my AI fee was about £350. My last scan cost me about £30 - my other scans came in with the AI fee.
With other vets fees for foaling etc I think it has come to a grand total of £1500. Also youve go to think about the swabs etc to be done - I didnt have them as we did AI but if you go natural covering then there is these costs too. Then youve got to think if yove got somewhere secure for the foal.

Unfortunately my costs have soared as I have sent Willow away to be weaned. Its costing £150 p/w and shes been there 8 weeks - another £1200. Yes this was our decision as she was going to get lots of handling/training whilst she was away and our land wasnt really that secure to have her weaned with us in case she did something silly, also we dont have stabling for her.

It isnt cheap and im really lucky that my mum has put a lot of the money into it - i paid for the stud/vets etc and she has paid for the weaning part so far.

Would it not be easier for you to sell Senza to get the show jumper you want? I know it might be difficult for you to sell her but it might be the easiest option in the long run.
 
I would say almost word for word the same as Luckilotti!

Do a lot more research regarding the stallions that will be on your short list, the studs they stand at along with all their charges as in stud fee itself, livery charges and whether they do a vet package which seems such a good idea I wish every stud or vet offered them! It will vary all over the country and depending on how high-flying the stallion and stud you want to use is too. As an example, the vet package up at End House for Swallow is £196 and that includes her swabs and all scans. While Twiggy is at Embla, their vet does not do a package, each procedure is booked to me along with shared visits and her bill will probably be over £200 as she has had a coil fitted to bring her into season, so you can see each place is different.

If she is still immature as a five year old, perhaps she could just do with the summer and winter turned completely away at grass which will give her a chance to rcharge the batteries and grow some more. It's surprising how well they grow stronger if they are left to their own devices for a while to thoroughly relax; perhaps that might be a thought, after all, it won't do her any harm to have a holiday, she is still young and she should come back next spring stronger than ever and able to cope.
 
Whilst I think Kelly would be better to either sell her mare or wait for her to mature over the summer before considering breeding - I have to say I do not agree with the £4k plus figures quoted on her. Yes, perhaps if you want a top class stallion from abroad and used AI, but not all (most people don't!) do this....

Kelly - for example money wise, my Mare is going to Gustavii's stud in two weeks time. As she's older she had all her swabs and tests as well as a scan and biopsy - this came to £247 inc. the £45 call out and was by a breeding expert at my practise. The stallion I have chosen is a young showjumping stallion, who shows great promise. Obviously I take a slight risk at chosing a young stallion, but for me it's not such a big deal as I had a limited budget and my mare herself is a proven competition horse AND mother, so I have her on my side - his fee is £275 to be covered in hand. The livery fee is only £25 a week for grass keep. If the whole lot comes in under £1500 with a live foal then I'd say it's not all that expensive really. I'm lucky that I own my own stables so I won't be paying livery on either mare or foal, if I was in a livery yard there is no way on earth I would breed from her, I cannot justify paying £120 + per month livery on a horse I can't ride for 4 years.....

It's all about options and choices and risks IMO. I had just spent £3000 on my mare's injury - so this year I am on a budget - hence grass keep, young stally and local stud. This is my mares new 'career' as she's been retired, so I have to do what I can with what is available. Obviously things can always go wrong at various stages for no reason, but that's horses and after spending the amount I have on this mares injury I am all too aware of that!!

Personally I would sell her now kelly, your heart doesn't sound in it at the moment and if you sell her now people won't really be expecting her to be jumping clear round after clear round - once she turns 6 they will.

Just my views, I think Senza is a cracking young mare and what ever you do with her is 100% your choice IMO. She is certainly good enough to breed from, it's whether you would be putting in even more work into a horse, and possibly a foal, that isn't what you really want
confused.gif
 
If you read my post properly (!!) you would see that i put £4k for a mare that had lots of problems - i was just putting out the worst case scenario!
 
Sorry it was QR I was not being specific to you, just comments in general that it's a majorly expensive process, just wanted to make sure Kelly realised there are options around spending mega bucks -well - on paper anyways!
 
Its cost me £2,500 so far for 2 unborn foals!!!! I knew it was going to be expensive.

But its not just the cost, i was extremely stressed going through it all, i had 1 mare get in-foal, then re-absorbed, then didn't take then finally got in-foal (hence why shes due mid July, should have been now). One mare did not get in-foal at all, and the other got in-foal first time only for it to be twins and thankfully she had a successful pinching. So i did not have an easy time.

If she has good conformation and temperament then go for it, just don't expect it to be easy or a cheaper option, lol. Probably would be cheaper to buy a small trailer/lorry and compete TBH. But it is totally up to you.
grin.gif
 
Forgot to say the stud my mares went to (Goshka Sport Horses) include the AI with the stud fee so i only had to pay for the scans. However, i had 2 mares there for 3 months and my lovery bill SHOULD have been £1,500 but Kate and Tina were so lovely that they only charged me £650. How nice is that?!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top