Bridle lame?

The wife

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Got a super talented 7yr old mare who is what can on,y be described as bridle lame. Bought as a 3 yr old off the track, re-schooled, lightly and successfully shown as a 4yr old, did BYEH classes etc. Evented lightly again during her 5th and 6th years, as well as again successfully showing and qualifying for Hickstead.

She came out at the beginning of this season after her Winter holidays in March time. She's a bit of a monkey so on morning of her first show trotted for about 2miles down the road to get her back down, took her to show, warmed up sound, went into the ring... Lame. Got 3rd anyhow and qualified for Equifest from a judge who proclaimed her lame??!! Took her out, jogged up, sound, warmed up for next class sound, goes into ring... Lame. Nod of the head, out we go.

Shes been intermittently lame on and off since regardless of where you are and what you are doing with her. She's been on a large quantity of bute over A week long period to try to get her sound (nearly enough to cure a broken leg!) still lame on and off. We've had vet out, nerve blocked, which came back inconclusive as she was lamer after them, sent down to Newmarket for scans, had the whole shebang. She was lunged prior to boxing up to go to Newmarket and was lame, got there and trotted up sound. They just could not make her go lame. Inconclusive results as scans showed nothing.

Since then we have been fiddling about with different things. Stress seems to make her worse but I have literally watched her going from perfectly sound to hopping lame in a strides length. We've changed bits, taken nosebands off, put them on, tried different saddles, had teeth done, back, tried variety of things, jumped her, hacked her, changed feed, tried very loose contact, very tight contact, different saddle pads, consistent routine, irrational routine, smacking her, calming her, riding her through it all and she always, without fail wants to do whatever is asked of her, she's happy. She's a very 'reactive' animal so even a slight pinch we would know!

She lunges sound, pulls out sound, hacks sound and sometimes schools sound but then the nodding starts and she goes lame. Sent a video off to vets in Newmarket showing her going lame. He's told us there is no such thing as bridle lame.

So we are stuck with a inconsistently lame horse who is very talented, willing and able to the job, who after the Scans and x-rays from Newmarket, we are confident that she is not in any pain at all but looks lame and as I said above if she was in any sort of pain with her being so reactive and sensitive we would know about it!

Next step is a small amount of ACP while riding her and see where we are at.

Any suggestions appreciated please :)

Also in Veterinary
 
Sorry you are having a nightmare.

I don't believe in bridle lame either. There is something wrong.

Only think can think of is mare, hormones/ overies etc.
Wasnt there a post on here last year about a mare who went though tests to find it was her overies?
 
How very strange! I have never even heard of bridle lame - what does it mean?!

Is it on soft surfaces she is going lame? Maybe there is a correlation there...

Sorry not much help, hope you find the answer!
 
Does she go lame on the lunge?

On the lunge in a headcoller?

On the lunge in a bridle, roller and side reins?

On the lunge in her saddle?
 
I was going to say, were the rings on a softer surface.. especially if she's sound to hack? but it sounds like you've thought about stuff like that already.
Good luck...

eta I know this is a bit of anthropomorphism but when I run sometimes I get a twinge in my right knee that makes me painfully lame for a few minutes and then I'm fine... I've had it scanned and xrayed and they found nothing but I definitely feel it!
 
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Hadn't thought of ovaries or ulcers if I am perfectly honest as she is a very regular mare, always on time, never particulary stroppy-she's a general diva anyway. Never difficult around that time of the month but always shows the boys that she is 'ready'!!! And again with ulcers, she just doesn't look or seem to be that 'sort'. She has a healthy appetite, carries weight well, doesn't stress over feed time or makes a fuss, doesn't crib, windsuck etc and not sure that she was in training long enough to get them. May well be something to discuss with the vet.

Forgot to say she has always been slightly cold backed and girthy but it is something we have always known about her and has never been an issue.
 
Vaguely remember one we had years ago that my father called bridle lame. Can't remember details but he always maintained the horse was bluffing.
 
How very strange! I have never even heard of bridle lame - what does it mean?!

It's a term used sometimes to describe a horse that goes lame whilst exercised for no Apparant reason. It's subject to a lot of controversy as to whether such a thing exists and if a horse has the mental capacity to be able to 'play on it'

[/QUOTE] Is it on soft surfaces she is going lame? Maybe there is a correlation there... [/QUOTE]

Doesn't matter, hard, soft, stony, smooth. She'll again go lame/sound/lame etc regardless of what surface. Tried all that :)

[/QUOTE] Sorry not much help, hope you find the answer![/QUOTE]

Thank you!
 
Does she go lame on the lunge?

On the lunge in a headcoller?

On the lunge in a bridle, roller and side reins?

On the lunge in her saddle?

Yes, yes and yes! But only sometimes!! We've had a session before where we literally put everything on, side reins, roller, bridle etc and the removed it, even as far as taking boots off. It still went from sound to lame, sound to lame. Grrrr.

And afraid we haven't been brave enough to try bareback, I think one may be hitting the deck as she can be sharp... Typical chestnut mare ;)
 
Its not "bridle lameness" if it sometimes gets worse even on the lunge in a headcoller. They've just not found the source of pain yet IMO. :(

Wow, how annoying. :mad: I hope you can work it out.
 
Would ulcers make her go lame and sound? And surely should vets not have suggested this after finding nothing? I've only experienced it in my old tb ex-racer who was a typical 'ulcer' candidate. Cribbed,wind-sucked, always looks poor, crabby at tea time etc.

Re her foot question, afraid no pics of feet but she is typical tb. Slightly flat, longer toes, prone to losing shoes etc. Navicular was questioned at one point but ruled out after scans and x-rays.
 
Its not "bridle lameness" if it sometimes gets worse even on the lunge in a headcoller. They've just not found the source of pain yet IMO. :(

Wow, how annoying. :mad: I hope you can work it out.

Me too, thank you. It's awful knowing you have something so nice out in the field but not being able to do a thing with it. I'm not one for keeping animals as pets, IMHO they've got to have a job to do, else they go - reaches for the tin hat...

However, we might end up breeding from her but then the dilemma of one tricky, albeit talented animal potentially breeding another tricky, albeit talented animal? Descions, descions :) might just have to give her a year off and see if doctor green can sort her out!
 
Me too, thank you. It's awful knowing you have something so nice out in the field but not being able to do a thing with it. I'm not one for keeping animals as pets, IMHO they've got to have a job to do, else they go - reaches for the tin hat...

However, we might end up breeding from her but then the dilemma of one tricky, albeit talented animal potentially breeding another tricky, albeit talented animal? Descions, descions :) might just have to give her a year off and see if doctor green can sort her out!

Six months off or a year even that might be the way forward .
I used to use use a very well respected equine physio who always said if you keep working hard you always get to the bottom of the issue eventully.
Its just a maddening I don't keep them, as pets either but a long break when you have exhausted all options is worth it IMO.
 
Its going to sound terribly corny but got to agree, at times time is a great healer. I've read numerous reports regarding tendon and ligament injuries and the different ways in treating them and the general consensus is that it is only time off that heals them regardless of the initial treatment. One vet even stated that in theory if you had 2 animals with exactly the same tendon injury they would heal in the same amount of time even if one broke down and was chucked out in the field and the other was treated in the traditional way ie) box rest, anti-inflammatory treatment etc.

Interesting theories. :)
 
Yep marydoll, feet x-rayed already. We originally thought navicular and first vet agreed, so foot was first to be done then literally worked our way up. Foot, Knee, elbow, shoulder, back, neck, head, ribs and a full MRI scan for good measure. Not a sausage, apart from an unspeakable vet bill that cost more than the animal itself, it's tack, wardrobe and the lorry too!!! ;) surprised she's not glowing
 
Yep marydoll, feet x-rayed already. We originally thought navicular and first vet agreed, so foot was first to be done then literally worked our way up. Foot, Knee, elbow, shoulder, back, neck, head, ribs and a full MRI scan for good measure. Not a sausage, apart from an unspeakable vet bill that cost more than the animal itself, it's tack, wardrobe and the lorry too!!! ;) surprised she's not glowing

I feel for you, its so frustrating
 
Re her foot question, afraid no pics of feet but she is typical tb. Slightly flat, longer toes, prone to losing shoes etc.

Please get some photos of her hooves and post them here. TB's are quite capable of having lovely hooves - don't believe the myth.

The long toes will alter her breakover, hence the lost shoes. If she also has under-run heels (often go together with long toes) then she will be putting more strain on the tendons at the back of her legs.
 
It tough when you know they are really talented but you cant keep spending for ever and shoes off a bare field a rock salt lick and regular foot trims and time is old fashioned way forward in these cases it definatly worth a try .
The other thing I have done this in a similar situation was box rest but that horse was consistently 10th lame and defied all attempts to diagnose why we put him on box rest it blocked to one side of the foot but we could not find why .
As soon as the box rest started it began to gradually improve and in sixteen weeks he came right and is still in work frustrating not knowing why but we have the horse so I can live with it.
 
I had a similiar lameness with my cob. Investigated as far as an mri and still did not know what was wrong. Stuck him in a field for a year . Then started to ride him . 2 months later he went lame again- very lame. The next day he trotted down the field looking sound???? Got another vet to look at him and he had a course of bute and now he appears sound on one bute a day. Vet thinks that it was or is a cartilage lesion which after 2 years may settle down .
 
I had problems with intermittent lameness, very lame and then by the time the vet came the next day he was sound again so nothing to see, so frustrating and I was at my wits end! It turned out to be after front hoof X-rays (after other investigations) thin soles and under run heel and poor hoof balance. Farrier had never even mentioned his feet werent great and the hoof X-rays were only suggested by the vet as a last resort before he would have to go to Liverpool for MRI's etc. anyway since changing to a remedial farrier who had totally changed the shape of his hoofs, he has been sound **frantically looks for wood to touch**. It hadn't even crossed my mind it could be his hoofs.
 
Re her foot question, afraid no pics of feet but she is typical tb. Slightly flat, longer toes, prone to losing shoes etc. Navicular was questioned at one point but ruled out after scans and x-rays.

So they are unhealthy then......;)

Ulcers wouldn't necessarily cause lameness....but a poor and inefficient gut causes poor uptake of minerals and causes poor quality hooves.

Chronic pain (such as lameness) is also a ulcer cause.

Ulcer pain also causes body pain and tightness to muscles (such as the psoas muscles that stabilise the back end).

Tightness and body pain also causes hoof problems.

Hoof problems also cause tightness and body pain.......

I'm not suggesting ulcers are the whole story.....rather part of it - as are the hooves :).
 
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