Bright ideas on training a young horse NOT to kick out?

Luci07

Luci07

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So new boy has arrived some 2 weeks ago, he has settled in really quickly and is a real sweetheart. He is also 5 this time, 17 hands (lightweight) ISH and has the attention span of a flea which is to be expected being so green. He has not yet really tried to throw his weight around or push his luck and seems to be pretty pragmatic about his lot. I am currently just taking him on short 30 min hacks, both solo and in company and have only just started to introduce schooling back into the frame. Previously he has hunted but is so green that I am treating like a just backed horse.

I deliberately did not put back shoes on him again (reshod as soon as he arrived) to ensure a safe settling down period - was down for the other horses benefit but thank heavens I did for my sake!

So, he is very fidgety when tacking up (again, hes only been here for a short time and is young, so is learning and thats expected) - but what I am not keen on is that he tends to kick out - almost in a temper. Now its not a full on belt because he has caught me a couple of times and not caused damage but its obviously not something I want him to continue with.

Any bright ideas? I make very sure he knows where I am. When around his back end to groom or boot up I use firm pressure running my hands all the way down his legs and talk to him but this kicking out is like someone elbowing you. He clearly wasnt used to people picking up his feet originally but perservance and patience means he is much better about that and he passed my vets pretty stringet 5* before I bought him.
 
Saddle checked? Girth pinching? Would say to me he is either in discomfort with the tack on, or has been in the past. I would rule out anything physical before putting it down to behavioural.
 
Does he do it just when your tacking him up or when booting up and lifting feet? My 4yr used to cow kick when i tryed to lift her hinds up or put boots on, was very off putting tbh!! We didnt know she done it until the vet told us after she pasted the vetting :rolleyes: lol Weve now had her 3 months and can boot up, pick feet up, and faff about with no kicking :cool:
 
Saddle was fitted before I rode him in it by my saddler (master). Teeth booked in for the beginning of May and back person end of April but there is no soreness in his back. He doesn't kick out when being tacked up - its when he has to stand tied up. Have to say he is also the most almighty attention seeker as well! He has come out of Ireland/dealers/ours in a short period of time too..

Think the kicking back is not the right thing with him though. He is a very big baby who does need to respect my boundaries but he also has such a sweet nature that I don't want to sour him either. YO is helping anyway and will start schooling him on for me so think I will take the advice of perserverance to see if this helps him. Tonight it was.. " have you been giving him treats when you are putting him away"...

Guess who hasn't had a baby horse for rather a long time - gulp!.
 
I had an older gelding who'd revert to kicking out when frustrated or stressed. It was his version of pawing the ground and stemmed from being unable to move and walk off his frustrations. It was more like leg waving than lashing out AT something.

He was never allowed to do it when others were nearby and got a slap and a sharp 'No!'. When left alone he could do it to his hearts content and I just ignored it. I also tried to keep his boredum and frustration to a minimum: when tied up he had a haynet or lick to occupy him. When stressed whilst out and about he was allowed to keep moving, not forced to stand.

It grew less and less over time as he learnt to relax and just stand at piece dozing, but came back in stressful situations like shows.
 
Our haffy used to do this either when having back legs picked up or sometime when reaching under for the girth, I found a prod with my elbow (and I mean a prod - not hard) and a growl reminded her I was there and after a few weeks she stopped altogether. We also have a big tb x who occasionally does it when his leg straps are being fastened, same applies, prod and growl. Neither do it to 'get' you but it is not acceptable behaviour so they are not allowed to continue.
 
thats fair enough, how about timing the kick inline wiht a quick pinch on his side. dont say a word the first time, be read he lifts leg you do a hardish pinch, the next time follow it up wiht the word NO at the same time,. or even just make yourself tall and stamp a foot. often with a sensitve horse the action you do is enough to make them stand bolt up right and think WHOA hang on.
 
My mare kicks out in temper.
When she doesn't want to be tied somewhere away from her buddies is the usual. She isn't aiming at anyone, she does it when no one is stood there half the time. Nevertheless, she gets a crop across the backside and shouted at. Sometimes takes two attempts, but then she stands quiet as a lamb, albeit, looking miffed. She likes to test who is lead mare, once she realises it isn't her, we get on fine :P

Kicking is not acceptable behavior, and at 5 he needs to learn that, at 3/4 I'd probably be a bit more forgiving, but at 5 he should know better. Tell him off when he does it. You don't have to be harsh, but he needs to know you mean it.
Once you find a technique that works with him, stick to it, don't keep chopping and changing, confuses baby minds!

DON'T GIVE TITBITS EITHER. :P Worst thing ever to do.

Hope you have lots of fun together in the future :)
 
My boy used to kick out a bit when he was five. ( when I bought him)

Kicking is a natural way of the horse telling you its grumpy.

I wouldn't go down the road of checking saddle back blah blah.. whatever..

There porbably nothing wrong with your horse, hes just throwing a mini tantrum, and you say it isnt hard or vicious.
My boy will be nine this may, and he'll still paw the ground with his front foot when being tacked up. I'll smack him, and he'll have a little huff to himself.

I just think a hard smack every time he does it whether its tacking up or otherwise will do the trick.

I would hate to go back to having a five year old, because it felt like everyday he would get a smack, and he wouldn't learn. It was just about being repetetive and clear, so he knew what the conciquence would be when he did a certain thing. He is now a very well mannered horse that anyone could and has handled.

Good Luck with your boy x x
 
My mare did this when we got her. Really hated you walking behind her, putting boots on etc.....

I use a firm noise...not really a word, for everything she does wrong. Short and sharp.

I couldn't slap her for it as that would make her worse.
She learnt the sound as her doing something bad and has totally grown out of it, i can stand behind her, do boots etc, no worries now.

The sound has proved brilliant as if she messes around while being ridden i use it and she stops the bad behaviour immediatley.

be consistant with it. Some people use stones in a bottle to shock with the noise when doing something bad. marry this with the word command and you'll soon not need the rattle.

Good Luck, sounds very much like a baby thing, just learning the boundries.
 
My youngster tried to kick me in the stable when he was 4. I was walking in with his bucket of water and he turned on me so he had the bucket of water chucked over his head! He has not even thought about it since. You need to be firm with him now and catch it quick or it is going to become a problem you will not get your horse out of and a dangerous problem too!
 
Many thanks for your suggestions! It is a long time since I have had a really green horse and I fully expect him to try his luck at some point. Thats just being realistic of a new horse settling in and not a reflection on his character. Talked to my YO last night and I will be increasing his work load now as well. I have also never known such a little attention seeker - as soon as he claps eyes on me he wants to be fussed so I will put that in the same bag as titbits! This is the boy I bought to go back to eventing on so we do have a plan on work to bring him on but I have bought him with the intention of him being a long term keeper and want to set him off properly.
 
Have a look at this link - http://www.localriding.com/farrier-training.html

I have used this method with an 17.2HH hunter who got me straight in the knee and put me on the sofa for a week! There was no point in kicking him back, as I was crumpled on the floor at the time and couldn't kick anything!

I actually started off using a length of foam pipe lagging and gently running it down his leg. When he tried to kick it away, I stayed with him. When he accepted it was there, I moved it away. The premise is that you reward the behaviour that you want by removing the pressure. I then worked up to using the padded walking stick to ask him to pick up his feet.

One thing I was careful of was to make sure that I was standing well out of reach of teeth and front feet being slammed around. He was a fairly disgruntled chap to begin with, but with work, he will now allow all legs to be handled without a problem, is well behaved to shoe, boot up and bandage.

Hope this helps.

ETA - He was 16 when we started this process. You can teach on older boy new tricks!
 
If he is doing it when nothing is happening and he is just tied up he could well just be bored/getting stressed. Horses are flight animals and naturally mooch around to graze most of the time so when we tie them up for long periods with nothing to eat we're actually asking more than we think.

Suggest hay (personally I prefer a bucket to a net) and changing your routine so that he is only tied without a reason (grooming/tacking) for a minimal time. E.g. if you normally
- tie
- get grooming kit
- groom
- leave tied
- get tack
- tack
- have a nice natter with a yard friend/cup of tea...
- start warm up

try
- get grooming kit & tack
- tie
- groom & tack
- start warm up

It is amazing how a few adjustments to routine can make much happier horse.
 
Tickles said:
If he is doing it when nothing is happening and he is just tied up he could well just be bored/getting stressed. Horses are flight animals and naturally mooch around to graze most of the time so when we tie them up for long periods with nothing to eat we're actually asking more than we think.

Suggest hay (personally I prefer a bucket to a net) and changing your routine so that he is only tied without a reason (grooming/tacking) for a minimal time. E.g. if you normally
- tie
- get grooming kit
- groom
- leave tied
- get tack
- tack
- have a nice natter with a yard friend/cup of tea...
- start warm up

try
- get grooming kit & tack
- tie
- groom & tack
- start warm up

It is amazing how a few adjustments to routine can make much happier horse.
Click to expand...

He isn't tied up and left though - ever! he is tied up so I can groom/tack up and as I have 3 to do at the moment, there is no question of hanging around AND I have to fit dog walking/leg stretch around this as well. On reading some of the responses I think I do pander a little too much to the attention seeking and need to be a little quicker in my own reactions. He is a quick learner too - he did not want back boots on at all when he first arrived but now accepts them. Ditto he is getting used to having his feet picked out regularly so it now longer takes 10 mins to get a back leg up. He is also learning to drop his head for bridling up too. We know already that he is a very greedy horse (and tbf is a bit underweight at the moment - nothing drastic) but food is being monitored in line with work and building muscle. Oh well, if I had all the answers life would be easy so I do tell myself that I am learning a lot from him as well..!
 
Ah, I misunderstood your reply when someone asked was he uncomfortable with the tack and you said he kicked when nothing was happening. Assumed you meant nothing happening <for a while> not <for a moment>.

Have fun with him!
 
Mine had a hind leg injury just below his stifle, almost a hole but it wasn't very big and I completely understand it would have been sore. I distracted him with carrots and my Official Aloe Applicator dabbed Aloe Vera Gelly on it. His back foot had barely hit the tack room when he lashed out and she slapped him flat-handed so hard and fast on the underside of his tummy he will probably never ever dare raise a leg again! Her hand was stinging for about two days after but it bloody well did the job!!

If he's not happy about you touching something that hurts, he dangles a back leg but a firm "errrr, no" and he puts it back down!!!
 
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Interesting thread. We have a 4 year old TB mare who lashes out with a front leg when she is cross. This is usually when she is being asked to do something she doesnt want to do.

She does get a sharp slap but I'm not sure how much good it is doing
 
Solution depends on the horse, I used to have a horse I dubbed the Ginger Ninja because of his impressive aim, could probably have kicked a fly off the wall of his stable if he'd wanted, he'd also bite, rear and buck, not a sensitive horse, just a bit spoilt, I found kicking him back worked surprisingly well, no emotion involved, just a swift rap to his shin if he even thinks about picking a back foot up.

Other horse had a babyish temper tantrum phase, responded very well to a growly thunderous NNOOOOOOOOOOO.

If kicking him back sounds a brutal way to deal with a horse, just watch them deal with each other, nothing I do could compare to the punishment they dish out.
 
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