British Novice Double clears

[Peanot]

I know that you need 4 double clears to qualify. But to qualify for what?
Sorry to sound a bit tick, but I have 3 DC and so I need 1 more. I know it used to be that you had to get 4 DC in round 1, then 4 DC in 2nd round, but I`ve heard its all changed, is this right?
Thanks

 

[Emma123]

Need 4 DC's to qualify for second rounds. Assuming your a senior, you get one chance to qualify for the final which is held at the scope festival. The second rounds are held in your area and you are only allowed to compete at that one (no travelling to a different area to compete!) and only 2 qualify per area. Hope that helps!

 

[dieseldog]

The 2nd rounds start at 1.05 and are 3 rounds - first 2 not against the clock the 3rd one timed - the 3rd round usually ends up around 1.25

 

[Zebedee]

Hmm.....so if you're riding somthing that's careful, but is almost at the top of its/your game at BN (& there're plenty out there who are) there's not a lot of point doing the second round is there?
NB. DD - not having a dig at you - unless of course it you that writes the rule book!

 

[SillyMare]

I was just thinking the same - 1m25 in the second round of a class that is only 90cm seems a bit much!

(obviously this is not a dig at DD either)

Doesn't that mean the geniuine novice horses / riders have very little chance against the good ones that are competing way below their real level?

If I wanted to jump 1m25 I wouldn't be entering BN would I!!

 

[Rambo]

The second rounds are really designed to meat out the jumpers from the 'hobbyists' (no slur on anyone intended). It's not just the BN that does this either....Discovery 2nd Rounds will make 1.30m in the JO, and NC / Foxhunter 1.40m / 1.50m respectively. The horses that tend to win these 2nd Rounds are not your average horses, and will and do go on to much bigger and better things.

I must admit I thought a BN 2nd Round would start at 1m and make 1.20m in the final JO....but haven't checked my rule book so have no reason to doubt DD.

 

[dieseldog]

Before they bought in the rules about only 1 qualifying for every 20(???) starters you would qualify for the final if you jumped 2 clears and just got to the third round as 10 qualified, now you need a very special horse to get thru. The funny thing is though when you get to the festival its back at 1.05.

BN/New has the biggest leap in height from the first to the 2nd rounds - 15cm, the other classes are both 10cm

ETS - I also think it is complelty mad and way too big

 

[SillyMare]

All sounds horribly big to a wobbly eventer like me!

Why are coloured poles so much scarier?

 

[Rambo]

It's very odd that it goes back to 1.05m for the final isn't it !? Both NC and Fox go up another 10cm in the first round of the final...so NC is 1.30m and Fox is 1.40m. The finals of NC and Fox revert to table A7 though (1 round then a JO against the clock). I guess they want to make sure that any horse qualifying for a high-profile final at HOYS is capable of jumping the biggest tracks though

 

[cdh1]

for the last two years in my area (area43) i felt that the 3rd round in the british novice has only been a very small 1.10. if it starts at 1.05 then the second round will be 1.10 then surely the 3rd round would be nothing over 1.15. i very much doubt it would ever get up2 1.25? but then it does depend on the amount of d/c from the first and second round etc etc.......but who no's. im sure a bsja course builder could answer that!

 

[Patchwork]

What a weird system... surely if you wanted to jump 1.25 and were capable of it then you would be entering Foxhunter classes not BN - and that's three levels up!

 

[Rambo]

It's only a weird system if you view it from the perspective of not wanting your horse to progress. For producers of young horses it is a very sensible system, as you want to remove the scenario where the best horses are spoilt by being raced against the clock over small fences. What you must remember is that in pure SJ'ing terms even a Foxhunter is considered to be a 'Novice' class. The underlying principles of BSJA are and have always been to develop horses to jump at the highest levels, and the grading system enables that to happen. The confusion lies when they open up the lower end of the scales to encourage new members (for financial reasons I suspect) and thus start getting horses registered who have no chance of going beyond 1m. Traditionally those horses would have stayed at RC or local level SJ'ing.

 

[flower]

[ QUOTE ]
It's only a weird system if you view it from the perspective of not wanting your horse to progress. For producers of young horses it is a very sensible system, as you want to remove the scenario where the best horses are spoilt by being raced against the clock over small fences. What you must remember is that in pure SJ'ing terms even a Foxhunter is considered to be a 'Novice' class. The underlying principles of BSJA are and have always been to develop horses to jump at the highest levels, and the grading system enables that to happen. The confusion lies when they open up the lower end of the scales to encourage new members (for financial reasons I suspect) and thus start getting horses registered who have no chance of going beyond 1m. Traditionally those horses would have stayed at RC or local level SJ'ing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

An awful lot of people that qualify for the finals are not amateurs. They are professional riders/producers/dealers and the horses that qualify for BN 2nd rounds will be jumping Foxhunter classes by the time they contest the second rounds.

It is definitely not uncommon for them to end up at 1.25 by the 3rd round, but this does depend on where you are - Patchetts for example was always one of the stronger ones but they had a lot of entries, although I'd say the majority of them finish up at 1.20.

 

[SillyMare]

I think you could probably say the same has happened to BE (there was a lot of debate in H&H not so long ago about it).

On the one hand the sport has been opened up and become accessible to 'normal' riders on 'normal' horses (many of whom have little chance of ever getting round a novice or intermediate track).

On the other hand a niche has been created for the low level dressage specialist making it very difficult to achieve a decent result on a genuinely green or 'ordinary' horse.

Also a lot of the small unaffiliated competitions have been effectively put out of business which leaves people with little choice but to affiliate to get decent competitions.

Many intro / PN riders have absolutely no intention of progressing through the ranks. I don't think there is anything wrong with that unless they block the path of those that do want to progress (balloting of events is another soap box subject of mine).

I would personally be in favour of regional competitions being held at the next grade up for eventing. That way there is a chance of promoting the success of combinations who have potential to move up the ranks and not just the dressage specialists.

Think I have talked myself back round in the debate about 'if I wanted to jump 1m20 I would have done Foxhunter not BN).

 

[Ferdinase514]

Is exactly the same BD...you see horses competing at Novice regionals who are prob working at much higher level at home and therefore the competition is much stiffer.

This is why you have more amateur side of competition in the Area Festivals...so we can all qualify for something. do you have that in BSJA?

 

[Rambo]

Yes you do....you have Amateur Champs at 90cm, 1m, 1.10m and 1.20m. The second rounds of these classes do not go up above the heights of the first rounds, nor do the finals.

The 'down side' to these classes is that they are open to any grade of horse, so you could easily find yourself up against a good grade A in any of the class heights lol!

 

[Ferdinase514]

That's crap. Why don't they put restrictions on them?

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
That's crap. Why don't they put restrictions on them?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why's that crap

The restrictions are placed on the rider in Amateur classes, not the horses. So, you cannot compete in an Amateur class if you are ranked inside the top 450 or top 250 depending on the height of class you are jumping. If you want to jump against horses of a comparable standard then you enter the normal graded classes (BN, Disco, NC and Fox)

 

[Ferdinase514]

Oh I see! Not so crap then

 

[KarenX]

Agree with Rambo! I think the BSJA have a very good system and the grading system works really well. Amateur comps are a good idea especially for the talented Amateurs!

I'm a happy bunny anyway!

There's something for everyone imho.

Karen

 

[Ferdinase514]

Wasn't in disagreement...just didn't understand the system. Always been a BD & BE person

 

[dieseldog]

The system also helps horses that have a limit, they now have a job to do and won't disappear once they have reached their discovery limit of 1m etc.

 

[Peanot]

[ QUOTE ]
The 2nd rounds start at 1.05 and are 3 rounds - first 2 not against the clock the 3rd one timed - the 3rd round usually ends up around 1.25

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you have to jump these 2nd rounds before April, the same year as you jump in the 1st rounds?
I didn`t think that they went up that big! That`s scary for saying that we are only competing at BN and Dis.
I know that Newcomers is at 1.10 but people have said that they are more complicated, in what way?

Thanks to all your replies too.

 

[Santa_Claus]

you have to jump 4 dcs between 1st May 2006 and 30th April 2007 to jump in the 2007 regional finals which are held between normally May 1st and mid/late august.

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
The 2nd rounds start at 1.05 and are 3 rounds - first 2 not against the clock the 3rd one timed - the 3rd round usually ends up around 1.25

So do you have to jump these 2nd rounds before April, the same year as you jump in the 1st rounds?


[/ QUOTE ]

LOL!

No, it's the format of the 2nd round class on the day (I think it might be called A8 but don't quote me on that !)....I always call it Grand Prix format ! All horses jump the first round (not against the clock), all those equal after the first round jump a raised second round (again, not against the clock), then in the event of equality after both those rounds, there is a traditional JO against the clock

 

[susan_w]

From the rule book:

British Novice - 1st Round - Table A7 or Two Phase

First Round Max Height - 90cm
First Round Max Spread - 1m
Water - No
Water Tray - Optional

British Novice - Regional Final - Table A8

First Round Max Height - 1.05m
Jump Off Max Height - 1.20m
First Round Max Spread - 1.15
Water - No
Water Tray - Optional

It's a highly competitive competition - when you think that you've got all the people in your region (not just your area), who all jump their four DCs. Then they are allowed to go to just one final in your Region, and have to come 1st or 2nd to go to the final.

 

[Rambo]

Thanks for that Susan....certainly clarifies things. Basically means the fences are going up 5cm per round in the regional final.

As you say though, it is a very competitive competition and one that can add an awful lot of value to your horse if he wins or does well in it, thus they have to have something to jump for imo

 

[Peanot]

Thanks for all your replies, you have all been very helpful.