humblepie
Well-Known Member
A new website has been launched www.horsepwr.co.uk which has facts and information about racing, racehorses, care and welfare. From what I have read of it so far it looks good.
British racing launches new campaign to communicate welfare standards
- Thread starter humblepie
- Start date
reynold
Well-Known Member
Just saw this as well and it does look good.
Hope ITV promote this site to the public in the run up to the GN
The 2023 NH fatal injury rate is listed as 0.37% and includes horses PTS up to 48 hrs after racing. Also 5yr rolling fatality rate as 0.2% across all flat/NH racing.
Hope ITV promote this site to the public in the run up to the GN
The 2023 NH fatal injury rate is listed as 0.37% and includes horses PTS up to 48 hrs after racing. Also 5yr rolling fatality rate as 0.2% across all flat/NH racing.
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
There needs to be greater traceability around them when they retire, also retirements should be published, I only know of a lot because they're posted on a racing forum and a lot are quite big names
I like seeing what they get up to when they retire, it should be more public, it was poor ITV not even showing their parade at Cheltenham
I like seeing what they get up to when they retire, it should be more public, it was poor ITV not even showing their parade at Cheltenham
Maddie Moo
Well-Known Member
Funny isn’t it that the Thoroughbred Health Network was set up back in 2015 through Glasgow and Edinburgh vet schools. This was presumably the brainchild of Dr Parkin (now at Bristol Vet School) to be a UK version of the Grayson-Jockey Club initiative in the US that Dr Parkin is heavily involved in. It promoted a science based approach to racehorse care and welfare as part of their educational strategy.
This then tapered off and the website doesn’t exist anymore, their last post on SM was at the end of last year. The cynical side of me wonders if the BHA didn’t want the competition from the THN. They certainly didn’t advertise the THN as much as they could have, considering how well designed the information was for the general public to access. Admittedly most people haven’t heard of the THN, which may have also factored in its demise! Equally I believe the BHA could have taken it over or ran it in collaboration with the vet schools.
I originally saved a couple of the diagrams from the THN, which I’ll attach here. The multicoloured flowchart was demonstrating the inter-relationship between risk factors and the development of catastrophic injuries.
EDIT - Obviously the THN only focused on injuries etc but it was still a fantastic and accessible resource, I wish they would have amalgamated it into their new scheme.
This then tapered off and the website doesn’t exist anymore, their last post on SM was at the end of last year. The cynical side of me wonders if the BHA didn’t want the competition from the THN. They certainly didn’t advertise the THN as much as they could have, considering how well designed the information was for the general public to access. Admittedly most people haven’t heard of the THN, which may have also factored in its demise! Equally I believe the BHA could have taken it over or ran it in collaboration with the vet schools.
I originally saved a couple of the diagrams from the THN, which I’ll attach here. The multicoloured flowchart was demonstrating the inter-relationship between risk factors and the development of catastrophic injuries.
EDIT - Obviously the THN only focused on injuries etc but it was still a fantastic and accessible resource, I wish they would have amalgamated it into their new scheme.
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Birker2020
Well-Known Member
They need to do more research. This is Racehorse Deathwatch's figures from 2022, its really useful because you can filter results to show going, jockey and course. https://www.horsedeathwatch.com/
Cheltenham I learned used to be problematic because the landings were lower than the take offs. We all know how we jar our backs when we step off a kerb which we don't believe to be so high.
Since the start of last month we have lost 14 horses as a result of accidents on racecourses. Six were 6 years old. One was 11 (The lovely Highland Hunter which really upset me). Two were 8.
The others were 7, 5, 4 and 3. I don't think its acceptable in any way shape or form. No other 'sport' has this high number of fatalities, can you imagine if you lost 3 horses in one day SJ or Dressage? Everyone would be in uproar but for some reason it is 'acceptable' if that is the right word, in racing. It's very sad and depressing and someone needs to look at the data in greater detail to work out why all these beautiful creatures are breaking down or falling dead. There must be a common denominator. Is it down to fate or luck? Is it down to breeding as in the Eight Belles article? Is it to do with fitness? They should not be expendable -period. I'm sorry but I feel quite strongly about this after the recent number of deaths.
Cheltenham I learned used to be problematic because the landings were lower than the take offs. We all know how we jar our backs when we step off a kerb which we don't believe to be so high.
Since the start of last month we have lost 14 horses as a result of accidents on racecourses. Six were 6 years old. One was 11 (The lovely Highland Hunter which really upset me). Two were 8.
The others were 7, 5, 4 and 3. I don't think its acceptable in any way shape or form. No other 'sport' has this high number of fatalities, can you imagine if you lost 3 horses in one day SJ or Dressage? Everyone would be in uproar but for some reason it is 'acceptable' if that is the right word, in racing. It's very sad and depressing and someone needs to look at the data in greater detail to work out why all these beautiful creatures are breaking down or falling dead. There must be a common denominator. Is it down to fate or luck? Is it down to breeding as in the Eight Belles article? Is it to do with fitness? They should not be expendable -period. I'm sorry but I feel quite strongly about this after the recent number of deaths.
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Maddie Moo
Well-Known Member
Firstly it is worth noting that the Animal Aid site is not an accurate source of data. They cannot know the causes of death unless it is publicly stated by the trainer / owner - they have seemed to wise up to this a bit, many years ago they would tel, you what the fracture was now they stick with ‘Brokedown’. The information is stored by the BHA on their veterinary database. Injuries are immensely complex, but what we do know from years of research is that most horses who sustain catastrophic leg injuries have the presence of Stress-Related Bone Injuries (SRBI), on the contralateral non-injured limb. Unfortunately horses with SRBI will not always be lame and the trainers may not have been aware of this until the point of failure in the form of a catastrophic breakdown. SRBIs cannot be evaluated using radiographs. This has led to the involvement of PET scanning to identify “at risk” horses, they can see the markers on the scans. Sadly this is not something that happens in the UK (yet!) but is in place in both the US and Australia, I imagine it is only a matter of time before it is implemented here. Further to this, StrideSafe is currently being trialled in the US and I imagine if successful, there is a real chance it will be used over here.
Interestingly different injuries occur different avenues of racing,Thoroughbreds are more likely to sustain a condylar fracture and / or sesamoid fracture (“fetlock complex”) than Standardbreds (P1 fractures) or Quarter Horses (Lumbar fractures - normally as they leave the starting gate). Further to this, surfaces do play a part in injuries - synthetics (Polytrack, Tapeta) reduce the risk of fracture but increase the risk of soft tissue injuries. The dynamic properties of synthetics changes depending on the temperature and this in turn impacts on the degree of fetlock flexion during the loading phase of the limb (based on research by UC Davis). Whilst this previously hasn’t been crucial here in the UK, with the ever increasing variation in UK temperatures, I think this is something that will require further investigation going forward for both racing and training.
There is a massive amount of research into racehorse injuries and looking at ways to reduce risks - there is a reason why fences at Cheltenham, Aintree etc get changed and that is because they do look at the data and study it. Not to mention the change of orange guard rails to yellow and then white on both jumps and hurdles. There is published evidence for example that shows that horse falls increase with sunny weather (hence why they remove fences). Also see above the information about the inter-relationships between risk factors and injuries, that is all based on many years of research. You can sign up to ResearchGate for free and access many, many published and peer reviewed articles into racehorse injuries and falls both in the UK and abroad and some really interesting research into injuries / falls in eventing as well.
Research into genetic factors have moved on a bit since the Eight Belles article simply because of the technology now (how was that 15 years ago?!) and is still ongoing through the RVC, there is a big focus on genetic factors at the moment. Japan is also conducting a lot of genetic research right now including into EIPH. Only last month the RVC found Thoroughbreds with lower levels of Collagen III were more likely to sustain a fracture. For soft tissue injuries, those with genetic variation in COL5A1 (Collagen 5, Alpha 1) were more likely to sustain a SDFT injury than those without the genetic variation.
I do strongly believe that until the BHA actively published the equine fatality data on a database similar to the US, it’s never going to get anywhere. US data is far superior to that ever provided by the UK, in the US you can even request the full necropsy records under the FOIA for each racing commission. Something I have done whilst I was planning my MRes research. Whilst the BHA or owner can opt for a necropsy, there is not definitive necropsy programme that evaluates the ‘whole horse’ once it has been euthanized compared to other countries.
Obviously that is just my opinion but I have spent a long time (over 10 years now) studying racehorse injuries and particularly later on for my MRes horse falls in jump racing. Racehorse injury prevention is something I’m very, very passionate about and obviously I’m lucky that I have been able to access a lot of published papers etc on the subject. You can really see how the research that was conducted in the early 2000s has led to the development of later research into things like StrideSafe and using PET scans for SRBIs. I hope the industry never settles in its pursuit of making things safer for the horses, I believe that going forward a lot of it will be based on identifying those at highest risk of injuries either from a genetic or SRBI perspective as well as changes to management of racecourses and ground.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Thanks for the info MM really interesting
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
yes very enlightening. I don't have anything against AA, they are only trying to help in the way they know how and that's a hell of a database they have.
Parrotperson
Well-Known Member
Golly. That’s an interesting website. Two things though
1.re the whip and use thereof by that explanation they should ban it for anything other than keeping a horse straight. They admit there’s no enough (any) evidence re pain.
2. This may have changed so forgive me but the only permitted way of euthanising is ‘by injection’. Really? My vet boss worked at racecourses. He used the captive bolt method when it was needed. This isn’t that long ago (3 years?)
1.re the whip and use thereof by that explanation they should ban it for anything other than keeping a horse straight. They admit there’s no enough (any) evidence re pain.
2. This may have changed so forgive me but the only permitted way of euthanising is ‘by injection’. Really? My vet boss worked at racecourses. He used the captive bolt method when it was needed. This isn’t that long ago (3 years?)
Maddie Moo
Well-Known Member
Interestingly the euthanasia guidelines produced by the Horse Welfare Board, which the BHA established as an independent advisory body, states in their euthanasia guidelines (on the BHA site!) for on course incidents that “where safe and appropriate, licensed firearm” may be used.
The HWB was implemented in 2020 so maybe this is a new thing they’ve just decided to change?
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
People were distressed by the gun and it was a poor perception saying horses were shot. It was stopped I think 2 seasons ago.
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
I think a massive step forward would be to ban the whip, unless for safety (e.g swerving off a straight line, and then only to correct)
More retirements should be announced, and made public, preferably with what is planned for the horse
I don't consider point to pointing a retirement - it would be interesting to see the death rates in that Vs normal racing?
Certainly an investigation well worth conducting would be why there are so many catastrophic breakdowns now - of the deaths how many are due to these Vs a fall?
More retirements should be announced, and made public, preferably with what is planned for the horse
I don't consider point to pointing a retirement - it would be interesting to see the death rates in that Vs normal racing?
Certainly an investigation well worth conducting would be why there are so many catastrophic breakdowns now - of the deaths how many are due to these Vs a fall?
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Im with you completely. Its absolutely sickening how many racehorses are dying - something massive needs to change, not just little things like whip usage (which IMO they should ban completely). Im against racing and would be happy for them to ban it completely.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
I was amazed to learn racehorses on courses are pts with lethal injection.
I would have thought that due to the stress factor involved this would have the potential to go horribly wrong, I thought that's why horses were sedated first. I'm not a vet so don't know these things, but I was surprised. Not easy getting a catheter into an agitated horse. Having said that, as the owner of a horse who was pts by either free bullet or captive bolt (not sure which) that went horribly wrong, I think injection might be better
SantaVera
Well-Known Member
Agree
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Yes they shouldn't pretend it was for horse welfare, it was to protect the sensibilities of the punters at the race course, of course.
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
There are many more racehorses than eventers, so there are going to be more accidents, plus they are going fast.
As for hind leg injuries on the flat, which seem to be more common than in the past which I have noticed simply by watching the racing on TV. I asked a local trainer about this at his open day, and said he might not want to answer.
However, he said he had bought a couple of horses in France for owners and both had broken a leg at home on the gallops. He said obviously he wouldn't be buying any more from that stable in future. He seemed to think that is down to different medications allowed in different countries, plus breeding.
There are far more French bred horses now, rather than Irish.
Incidentally, what are the results of the white take-off boards, compared to the orange. As above, simply watching the TV, it does seem to me that the horses are jumping better.
As for hind leg injuries on the flat, which seem to be more common than in the past which I have noticed simply by watching the racing on TV. I asked a local trainer about this at his open day, and said he might not want to answer.
However, he said he had bought a couple of horses in France for owners and both had broken a leg at home on the gallops. He said obviously he wouldn't be buying any more from that stable in future. He seemed to think that is down to different medications allowed in different countries, plus breeding.
There are far more French bred horses now, rather than Irish.
Incidentally, what are the results of the white take-off boards, compared to the orange. As above, simply watching the TV, it does seem to me that the horses are jumping better.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Which is why statistics given are for percentages of horses or starters. Racing is dangerous for horses, there's no getting away from it. If eventing killed as many horses as jump racing does then there would be multiple deaths each weekend of competitions. IME, the protest would be so huge that eventing would stop.
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Trickywooo
Well-Known Member
I agree much needs to change. But if racing is banned what happens to all the racehorses (currently 15,000 in training in the UK alone)? They cannot be rehomed to just anyone (trust me I've reschooled many). I find it somewhat ironic that most people say they want racing banned because of all the racehorse deaths, but banning it would likely result in thousands of them being pts due to lack of appropriate homes. Is it OK? Not at all but that is the reality nonetheless.
I do feel there is much work to be done with the racing industry to improve the welfare of horses. There are steps being taken, albeit not quickly enough imo, to improve the safety and welfare of racehorses which is positive. I admit I love racing and would hate to see it banned.
Old school
Well-Known Member
A culture change is needed in racing. While WPM is doing wonderful things, he really should be an ambassador for some proper change. There are significant deaths on the gallops here in Ireland. If it was properly investigated the back lash would be massive. The reality is many in the industry are simply desensitised and try to make out that anyone with concern is ‘soft’ and blather pointlessly about the wonderful care. But be honest, the wonderful care is all about the dollars at the end of day. Don’t continue to whitewash it with that pointless mantra.
So many big owners are hugely professional gamblers. The small guy is rarely seen owning a winner at the big meetings. Who in their armchair at home can connect with Ricci, Robcour, Bloom, etc. It is a greedy environment and the arrival of these guys are of no assistance to it. Now is a time to lead a real change, but no one has the balls to be the voice.
Young people do not see racing as a fair sport. I am seeing and hearing about businesses stepping away from their association with equestrianism. It is on a downward trajectory in the public eye.
So many big owners are hugely professional gamblers. The small guy is rarely seen owning a winner at the big meetings. Who in their armchair at home can connect with Ricci, Robcour, Bloom, etc. It is a greedy environment and the arrival of these guys are of no assistance to it. Now is a time to lead a real change, but no one has the balls to be the voice.
Young people do not see racing as a fair sport. I am seeing and hearing about businesses stepping away from their association with equestrianism. It is on a downward trajectory in the public eye.
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
If anyone is opposed to racing in principle then any measures taken over welfare or safety are not going to make them change their minds.
Racing is indeed a business, and supports a lot of people, and a good deal of research and money filtering down is good for all horses too.
So, yes, it is governed by "greed" or you could say, to make a living, be in business. It is also an entertainment for the many who go to meetings or on TV.
I love watching the racing on TV. I'm glad that welfare is improving and that retired racehorses are better looked after.
Racing is indeed a business, and supports a lot of people, and a good deal of research and money filtering down is good for all horses too.
So, yes, it is governed by "greed" or you could say, to make a living, be in business. It is also an entertainment for the many who go to meetings or on TV.
I love watching the racing on TV. I'm glad that welfare is improving and that retired racehorses are better looked after.
teddy_
Well-Known Member
Yes, there would be a glut of horses with a big question mark over what to do with them. But a ban would also stop hundreds of thousands more horses being bred in the future, thus eliminating the problem in the long-run.
Disclaimer: I am not someone who would support a complete ban on racing. Just musing
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ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
There is no realistic prospect of an industry that big being closed overnight. I don't see how it would be possible with less than 15-20 years notice.
Trickywooo
Well-Known Member
True and I think that this would be the only realistic way to bring in a ban. Not just for the horses but also the millions of jobs within the racing industry. However would those who wish to see racing banned be prepared to see it continue for the next 20 something years?
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Phase it out, then they'll stop breeding racehorses and the sport will die out.
humblepie
Well-Known Member
So many of us have the most amazing former racehorses in our lives for which we have racing to thank. Would the thoroughbred continue as a sport horse or end up a rare breed? Would the depth of breeding and type within the thoroughbred be lost? Just some thoughts.
bonny
Well-Known Member
No one is going to ban racing!
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
The eventual demise of racing in the UK is inevitable because of public perception.
It’s just a question of the timeline. Not for a good few years yet, but eventually the backlash against the very public deaths on screen will win over as sponsors and owners pull out.
bonny
Well-Known Member
Says who ? I don’t see the public demanding an end to racing, every year at grand national time there is a bit of a muttering about banning that one particular race but that seems to be the extent of the discussion.