Brutal, no holes barred CC pls on me & Soap **WWEC SJ Video**

Chloe_GHE

Chloe_GHE

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Here is our WWEC PN SJ vid.

1st fence ok then he is just so strong cannot get him back, looks like he's not even paying attention to the fence until the last minute, nice over 3 and 4 5a im waiting for another stride slight miscommunication as he decides to go! horrid can't get him back, pulling like a train
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Getting so down now about our SJ really want to crack it esp when I see stills like this of fence 3 look how neat and how much room he is giving it

Brutal CC then please what can WE do to make it better?.... riding, bitting, suggestions all welcome
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ETS oh the shame of all the arena party who go running off as soon as I have finished my cricket score, only just noticed them
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only good thing is I may have managed the round anonomously as they called me Chloe Almonds-Nutt!!!! now that really would be an embarrasing surname!!!!
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Ok, one, in some he just simply isnt jumping high enough
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doesnt look to be a bad spot, but he just isnt jumping...

Now IMHO you are nowhere near forward enough, you need more energy to create a powerful bouncy forward canter, not a bouncy not going anywhere canter
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If you get a bigger but round canter, you will have more power coming off the ground and he will jump better. Now you need to ride the canter better round the corners, as this will prevent him getting flat! So lots of leg, and lots of half halts to contain the energy but to keep it coming forward around the corner, you can then maintain it to the fence and as a result get a more powerful jump.

Also, instead of killing the canter after fences, land andpush forward into the contact to rebalance him for the next fence. There is no reason to be dropping back to trot at any stage, if he was more forward he would sort his legs etc out himself
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I'm no expert at all, so feel free to ignore my ramblings!
That said I think you need more canter- he looks to me that he's pretty backward, not really coming off the floor and not really up for it in the video- has he been checked over recently?
3 he seems to jump that line better as you pull him right backafter 2, but then 'get after him'/let him get on with it at 3 and 4 and thus he gets more impulsion, whereas in other places his canter almost looks 4 time?
Is that how he jumps normally or was it an off day?
 
Thanks Kat,
I have been working on a bigger bouncey canter but as soon as I get even the slightest weight in the contact he just runs on and does that 'not jumping' thing in front
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I'm trying to keep him light in the hand as when I do he always goes clear. Do you think I should rethink bits?... He was in KK Universal with a curb but it had NO affect
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as you can see I'm so out of control between 1-2 and befrore the last
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It's so hard as he schools well and warms up well but is a different animal in the ring....
 
I may be wrong, but the only criticism I have is you seem to restrict him alot with your hands. Hence, your only letting go at the last stride if at all so he will knock it down because he can't naturally bascule whilst your holding him. Maybe he isn't respecting the bit he is in, I'm not sure. He does have a lovely jump when he uses himself. I don't have any solutions but i hope you find some, he is lovely to watch x
 
How is he if you dont take a contact, and just use lots of light half halts without actually holding onto him? I hop on a IDxTB who runs as soon as you grab him, but if you keep off his back and just softly check him, he is fine? And ou may think me mad, but have you gone down a really soft bit route?!
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Is that how he jumps normally or was it an off day?

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Oh god all hope is lost
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That's him normally!!!
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He warms up well and schools well but int he ring he gets really heavy in the hand, runs through the contact, and just seems to want to tank onwards regardless of the obsticles. He has had all checks and has been okayed by vet farrier and physio.

I am hoping it is an attention span, ring vcraft thing, and when he starts to behave more and listen we can build on a bigger canter....I'm begining to loose hope
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I can see he is strong but agree with KatB, you need more canter.
I once got told what I think is a brilliant analogy for a good jumping canter.
The horse is a basketball and the rider is a pro basketball player. You need to have total control, in order to do that you need the power, too little and the ball won't bounce high enough for you to continue, too much and you won't be able to control it. Get it right and you can go left, right, backwards (collect) and forwards (lengthen) but always be able to come back to you base.
Made sense to me at the time, even if i have written like a load of rubbish there!!

I know how disheartening it is and the desperation to get it right. The canter is the start though.
 
I'm no expert but to me he looks like he isn't engaged behind. Have you tried not so much a bouncy more forward canter but a more uphill canter, I find with my mare that it doesn't need to be faster or bouncier just more uphill and then you find they have much more power behind.
 
he needs a nice bouncy sj canter, before you commence your round canter a circle so you can establish the canter and have yourselves set up nicely before your round, when you are jumping keep the rhythum the same the right the way round the course just now he is dawdling along and not sitting on his hocks enough before the fences.
he is brave honest and genuine though and its nice to watch
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Hes gorgeous,
My opinion (not that its worth much) is that it *looks* as though you are so trying to hold him back so much that you are restricting him and even unbalancing him over the jump. That would explain why when you find him light, he jumps better.
How to change that I dont know... Im not saying its your fault because if hes strong then i know i would want to try and hang on. Maybe try and get him listening to your seat more, so you can get him bouncy without him pulling your arms out.. sorry not much help!
 
The canter is the key.

A little known factoid here .....you loose a third of the canter when you go round a corner.....

So my trainer always told me to think forward and the canter that you loose in the corner will set you up at a good pace for the fence as corners slow you down.
 
Kat MB I have tried the soft bit route and letting him just canter at his speed with hardly any contact into the fence but then he does exactly that canter INTO the fence and send it flying! He doesn't seem to understand you have to wait and judge. He is so good and so brave he doesn't even think about stopping but thats half the issue! I just don't get it he is so fab xc great stride great rhythm
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He looks like you aren't really riding him forward, obviously this might not be the case, but he did have a bit of a wiggle going down the long side which might not have happened if you had been driving him forwards more. If I'm being really anal I would say you tip forwards slightly too much over the jumps when you are comfortable and this may push his front end down. You actually looked in a better jumping position when he took off a stride early. He also looks like he could do with improving his sharpness a tad. Maybe do something like a bouce one stride then a chunky sort of oxer, then turn it around and do oxer, one stride then bounce. This seriously makes them think about their legs. Does he just run more if you give him a kick when he starts to pull, just if mine starts to pull sometimes a kick gets her more up in front and easier to stop.

Apologies if I've been really harsh but you did ask
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Ok, what I would try is put up a couple of fences in the arena, and get a forward but not fast canter slightly out of the saddle with a soft contact regulating it. then do lots of jumping on turns, so canter a 15m semi circle into the fence, sitting softly just before turning but maintaining the soft forward canter. Dont change anything in the contact, just keep him flowing softly forward with no change in the contact or leg pressure. This is what someone I have lessons with has us doing, and it really helps to regulate and relax the approach. You can then do the same to a first part of a related distance. DONT get hold of the contact and dont change the leg pressure at all, just keep cantering. If they rush, circle and get the canter back. Canter poles can also help as they regulate the stride and engage the hind legs
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You have to be disciplined to make sure the canter stays the same through the whole approach though and keeps flowing forward without changing
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Yes MH I agree I do try but I'm concentrating so hard on satying back and waiting before the fence and not folding too quick over it as that revvs him up, and then I have a ploughing speed machine after the fence and all is lost that I get a bit defensive. I am working on it I hate seing pics of me in that kind of position but not sure how to remedy this

How do I stop him running off after?...

How do I get a more uphill canter not quicker?...
 
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i didn't mean it to come out like that!
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He looks unbalanced to me when he runs on through the bridle, my new (ish) boy is just the same at the mo, when I came out of the ring the other day (having had to do a bit of a detour like yours, then pull up and restart the canter) a friend of mine said sympathetically "he'll be better once he's learnt to steer" at which point my instructor said "no he'll be much better when SHE makes the engine/arse work and can PUSH him round the corners rather than letting him bowl onto his forehand, getting unbalanced and then moaning about it" so please don't worry about my cc - i am def not leading by example!
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I agree with Kat tho, can you try a bigger, more forward canter with less contact and see if that helps? Might well be just that he backs off a little in the ring and needs more forward encouragement than he does in the warm up etc?
 
Back to real basics, 2 small fences in the school on a circle, set your canter up and just stay on the circle, dont adjust him or set him up, just keep a light hold and your leg on, half halting round the corner if he rushes, and just keep repeating the exersise till he settles in a natural rhythm rather than a forced one. The rushing may be due to him running away from too much of a hold, but it will take a while for him to get used to carrying himself so dont expect quick results.

eta- the canter is something I would work on on the flat first, shoulder in in canter on a circle is a fab way of getting more impulsion and not just creating speed, make him work in the canter on the flat so you are constantly adjusting it, walk/canter/walk transistions are a great way of getting him on his hocks
 
Thanks but yeah if I put more leg on he just gets faster and stronger
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Kat that exercise sounds good but say I do all that and he still ploughs on whacking fences off what then?... I have tried soemthing similar and it just becomes a speed derby
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He is so reactive to the seat so maybe a 2 point position would be a good move although not that secure to ride in all the way?... and I would woorry I might sit and driive on the last few strides....argh I don't know what's the right tact to take...so confused...
 
I think you did really well. I would say help him out over the jumps by giving more with your hands. Lovely horse!
 
You dont let him. You HAVE to stay disciplined in the canter and not let it change. If it does, circle, reestablish and do that as many times as you have to until it is right. Also, 4 X poles on a 20m circle at 12 oclock, 3 oclock, 6 oclock and 9 oclock cantering round them and at first doing the 12 and 6 ones then the 4 together keeping the rhythm, and the circle will keep the canter, and the fences will make him neater
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ok will try for a bigger canter coming from behind and just let him bowl on but not fast or flat and hoping that the fences will back him off....that might work...maybe?...
 
ok what I might do is start that without the fences to establish the rhythm as I know he will try to rush and go on long ones then build in the fences. I think it's hard coz he is so variable in his canter from tiny and going no where to long and fast
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I will give it a go tomorrow
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I'll try and explain this so it makes sense, buut if it doesn't hopefully someone will help me out!
Whilst doing the exercises katb and mh suggest I also try saying things in the canter rhythm i want- there was someone on here that had a great one but i can't remember what it was. I'll use 123 123 123 1 in the 'spanky' canter I want or 'sit up and leg on' (worryingly i hear it in my instructors voice in my head - is that wrong?!!)
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yes I understand
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counting a rhythm helps me too I will remember to do that, it seems that just one stride a fraction longer can mean flat and if thats infront of a fence it's coming down. Im sure sj isn't that hard on other horses he seems so touchey, darn those sensitive tbs!
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just keep reminding yourself that the trickiest ones normally turn out the best in the end, and he's clearly got a lovely jump on him!
 
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