BS changes- registering results of every round

slumdog

slumdog

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I've just read on Facebook the BS proposal to register the result of every round that a horse or pony does. Obviously this is already done in eventing but is this something you're happy with? Do you think this will affect the sport with more people using unaffiliated shows to produce young horses? Do you think it will have an impact on the horse market?

I jumped our first BS show two weeks ago, and we had three down. This result for us was good, this time last year we flattened every jump in a two foot class and I know how much we've progressed. However on paper and without knowing me or Billy, it looks bad and I don't think it's something I'd really want on his record forever.
how do you feel about it?
 
Not really sure. I wouldn’t mind seeing all double clears recorded rather than just nationals and qualifiers but like you my horses record will look interesting, well more interesting than it does currently. At the moment it looks like I only jump once a year!
If someone was mad enough to buy him and looked at his record they would see either 4 faults or double clears but mostly it’s a sporadic and inconsistent record. I have no idea if it would put people off, I have nothing to hide but if its record is important then it could make or break.
I think in some cases it will help make things clearer, in others it will be detrimental. People already use unaff event to produce horses so their records are clean when they go aff. To be honest this and other things could mean more and more people jump unaff first, in a way that’s not a bad thing as 70cm aff classes are a bit drastic but only if you have a good standard of unaff shows in your area. Otherwise you end up with a horse with a dodgy record because its learning the ropes aff or a dodgy record because they get caught out making the step up to aff after jobbing round substandard unaff (this is a generalisation but you know what I mean, not everyone is a pro and can help the horse out)
I suppose I'm not too fussed but would be if I had to sell as I'm a complete amateur so he really won’t have a good record through my mistakes, as an amateur it’s not a big deal, as a pro I think it would have more of an impact. That said it will help with people saying their horse is competing at 1.20m, you can see that, yes they are competing at 1.20m but they aren’t getting round it!
I guess we will wait and see, with the way BS do other things I think horses records are the least of theirs and members issues.
 
Lol they do go from one extreme to the other!

I would like to see how they propose this would work seeing as they don't update horses records (or mine at least) as they currently stand from one month to the next and even then sometimes they are wrong - or don't appear at all - and this is only for placings or qualifiers! Then they blame the show secretaries for the delay!

I would like to see double clears recorded as above.. But call me cynical, but I just don't see how they will be able to input every single result with the manpower they have at the moment - especially when, sorry if, they get things wrong they have to deal with all the narked competitors phoning in to change them.

In theory I think it's a bit of a double sided coin. I think it could have a detrimental effect on those producing horses for a living, however as they say, it does offer maximum transparency to buyers - however if rider error has come into play - lost course, missed fence etc - should the horses record be punished?
 
I think is will actually lose BS money people might not take a horse out when they would have before just to protect the record. I took my new horse out at the weekend i'd only had him 1 week we were not really ready for a show but I just wanted to see how he was. We had 3 down I was not upset with him but if I knew it would show on his record I would not have gone I would wait until we were more established. To be honest I don't think it will affect professionals as much as amateurs, we just arn't as accurate so may let our horses down sometimes this isn't a true reflection of the horse but a mistake we have made. How many times have we jumped a round for 4 faults when the horse has jumped amazing and we have done something silly! I agree though that I would like to see all clears recorded including speed classes.
 
It also looks like they are changing the amateur classes so the entry level for seniors will be 85cm and only going up to 1m10.


I agree its a bit of a double sided coin, it will avoid people getting screwed over with horses that have 'jacked it' but then also good horses could appear bad because of bad riding or human error. Especially with young horses, for example doing a circle to gather a young horse back up before a jump will show on its record as 4 faults even if actually its cleared all the fences.
 
Exactly, if like me you miss a fence, you will have an elimiation. There is not a chance that the reason will be on there, like you said there is enough issues getting the results on there at it is.
I dont think it will be something that will work for all, it will be nice to see all results recorded but i dont evny the person who has to imput results from Hickstead!
 
I agree with others that it will drive producers of young horses and those learning to in affiliated classes, but then BS seem to be keen on that with the relatively new 2 vaccinations rule. I have each young horse I buy in Ireland given its first vaccination when it is 5 stage vetted, but I bet this is unusual.

I am all for transparency and am sure that BS will realise this will come at a cost to them.
 
I wonder why they are doing this at all tbh. Wouldn't worry me as an owner as you expect young horses to make mistakes and as a buyer I'd be more interested in how the horse was now. What happens though if you took the horse to the show, it napped for England wouldn't get in the ring so you took it home and another horse enters, has 3 down and that is on its record but at least it had a go whereas the first horse doesn't show a bad round cos its not been in the ring yet behaved worse ?
 
I think it's fair that BS comes inline with BE and BD for showing complete records. I agree that (particularly amateur) people might head to unaff to get youngsters started, but that's the same as eventing and probably dressage.
 
I'm swinging towards not being bothered. I think it will be interesting at first as everyone will read a horses record and think it looks bad if it always has a clear and 4 faults in the J off. but in comparison to others that wouldn't actually be a bad record and like eventing seeing a bad result doesn't mean the horse is rubbish at the job. I think over time anyone looking at a BS record will view it the same as viewing a horses eventing record - sometimes its what is happening on the day. Maybe they should also publish a link to all class entries and jump off time etc. under BE you can look up a horses record then look at its section and see how it did in comparison to the rest.

Don't they publish all BD records? its not really any different, if anything its bringing them in line with the others.

My horse is not the best SJ but it would be nice to see all his outings listed on his record.
 
BeckyD said:
I think it's fair that BS comes inline with BE and BD for showing complete records. I agree that (particularly amateur) people might head to unaff to get youngsters started, but that's the same as eventing and probably dressage.
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I think BS is different though in the people producing the young horses can take them out once or twice a week, that's potentially a lot of faults on a young horses record compaired to BE and BD. On the other hand maybe it'll help the young horses be produced slower.
 
I really think this is ridiculous just from an administrative perspective - a lot of shows round me regularly have 40 entries per class. Are they really going to record all those results....! I might be wrong but i bet dressage gets no where near the same number of total entires as BS and i assume that there must be half the amount of BE events compared to BS.
 
I think its a good thing in principle - I think most people expect that young horses will have faults! Much better than looking at a record of a horse thats jumped two DCs in six months and not being able to tell whether its been having faults every week, being eliminated every week or hasnt been out!

However, given the BSJA can barely keep horses records up to date accurately as it is, I think theyre asking for trouble!
 
They already do this in Ireland and it is really useful. A lot of judges already send in their results electronically. Wales and West already list every round, every fault that a horse jumps on their website, which helped me not buy a horse that had jacked it in. I think it is a good thing as it will make people be more honest and show centres will still get the revenue - might actually make more money as they wont have to pay the BS affiliation fees.
 
dieseldog said:
They already do this in Ireland and it is really useful. A lot of judges already send in their results electronically. Wales and West already list every round, every fault that a horse jumps on their website, which helped me not buy a horse that had jacked it in. I think it is a good thing as it will make people be more honest and show centres will still get the revenue - might actually make more money as they wont have to pay the BS affiliation fees.
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Is it possible to look up results from past years on the W&W website? I could only find this year's.

I think the proposed change is a good one. It will help to explain gaps. If a horse has a long gap on its record between shows, it is impossible to tell whether it was not competed, or whether it went and didn't get placed. And a vendor can tell you any story!

It would also be very very helpful in identifying horses that had started to stop. It would be good, too, to see how the horse went for different riders. If it had gone from a pro to an amateur and had a shocker of a time, that may influence a decision to buy.

It would help those horses that jump slow double clears in amateur and open classes too. So, from a buyer's perspective, I say aye!
 
They do this here in France already and it seems to work very well. Every single entry and result from ALL official competitions is put on the FFE (French Equestrian Federation)'s internet database - where anyone and everyone can view the information for free. You can look up any horse or rider who has competed and see their entire competition history in detail. For each competition it records the result of each and every entry - the horse's faults and time (both for first round and jumpoff if there was one), their final placing and any prize money they won - eliminations, forfeits and no-shows are recorded as well. You can also look up each horse's breeding and read up on the competition history of their parents, offspring, siblings etc.

For riders too you can look up their name and see their full record including a breakdown of how many classes they've entered, their prize money per year, and where they fit in any relevant championships etc.

It's an efficient system and kept well up-to-date - the judges input the data electronically and normally the information appears 2 to 3 days after a competition. It's not just useful if you're looking to buy a competition horse and want to know the details of their record (from an official source - not their current owner, who could easily just lie!), it can also give you useful information if you're looking at buying a broodmare (for example you can look up how their progeny has done), or if you want to find a stallion to use on your mare, or if you're looking for someone to compete your horse for you.

Oh - and it's also useful if you want to have a nosy at top-level prize money :p

Supanova said:
I really think this is ridiculous just from an administrative perspective - a lot of shows round me regularly have 40 entries per class. Are they really going to record all those results....!
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If the French can do it I don't see why the Brits can't :p FYI over here in showjumping 40 entries is considered a small class!
 
If we had reasonable unaffiliated available, which didnt take all day with falling down fences built on a figure of eight with pony strides and went past 90cm, I might be for it. But we don't, and I am not.

Yes, I do think all clears should go on, but not every round, certainly not at lower levels. I wouldn't be comfortable taking youngsters out because we don't have the unaffiliated to give them some practice runs, and I would worry about blemishing their record. Also, no way would I let my husband loose on my nice mare; he only learnt to ride in April, and I am happy for him to jump 90cm Am classes, because I know the courses will be fair on the horse, and if he misses a fence/forgets to kick/ falls off round the corner (!) it's ok.

Also as above, unless they will link to the class for comparison, that's dodgy ground.... Plus, rightly pointed out, BS can't update the records as it is without considering adding 40-60 rounds per class, 6 classes a show, avg 4 shows a week day, 10 at a weekend.... The whole system might blow up!
 
I think there are both sides to it really; on the plus side it gives buyers a complete idea of how a horse is going...so a seller can't say ''competing at 1m10 happily'' if the record shows big fat E's and multiple poles down at that height... BUT then again, showing every fault can give a false 'bad record' as others have said.....as a rider error of jumping a wrong fence would be an E.....hmm...very interesting.

It will be interesting how BS manage this (if they do at all)....it is a big task...
 
millitiger said:
Great idea, particularly if they are also going to make records available to view to non-members.
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I think so too. Can't understand why not (apart from the fact BS apparently couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery). Assuming it can actually be implemented surely it is a really useful tool for buyers, people looking for a pro, people looking for a stallion etc?
 
i dont see the issue with it. Whether you are an amateur or pro, you know the game of horses and that every horse can have its good and bad days.

My record with my 7 yr old will look awful but i dont mind. He is mine and has been ridden by me (a complete amateur) since day 1 of BS.

I guess it could knock down the value of some professionally produced horses as maybe an odd 4 or 8 faults might put someone off. but i would also like to know as a buyer how many times a young horse has been jumped and has it been pushed further than you would expect

I think its fair and as long as people dont expect 100% clean results then its fair to both sides
 
I don't see why updating the records should be so very difficult. People saying that BE don't have half as many competitions or competitors - well no, but they do have up to say 350 a day at each event, and yet manage to update BDWP website that evening and BE website by the next working day. I don't know what their system is but it seems pretty efficient. I'm sure BS can do the same thing. With these days of technology surely either the judge or the organiser can just send over the results after each class? It really shouldn't be that difficult.
 
BeckyD said:
I don't see why updating the records should be so very difficult. People saying that BE don't have half as many competitions or competitors - well no, but they do have up to say 350 a day at each event, and yet manage to update BDWP website that evening and BE website by the next working day. I don't know what their system is but it seems pretty efficient. I'm sure BS can do the same thing. With these days of technology surely either the judge or the organiser can just send over the results after each class? It really shouldn't be that difficult.
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BD seem to find it pretty difficult - they massively struggled to get all the results uploaded in time for the first regionals this year, with many people not having the qualification confirmation by the entry closing dates. I 100% agree that it shouldn't be difficult with technology etc, but i do not believe that BS will be prepared to pay the number of staff it will take to upload the results efficiently - therefore i think it will end in chaos!
 
I don't think it will be as bad to do as people are imagining. Lots of show centres and judges all ready use the same software, it is updated once a week, Wednesday? I think, with the members/horse database, and they are already sending back their results electronically, and are recording the information already on a laptop as to what happens in the class, they use it for doing jump off drawn orders etc and also for unaffiliated classes - it is actually quite good . There is already a link from BS to the software. They have been using this package for years - it's just what happens to it once it gets back to BS HQ and BS ability to mess it up and obviously not everyone is using it currently.
 
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