BSJA winnings record

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Niv2

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How do you check the winnings record of your horses?

My horse is jumped by a professional rider and he deals with all aspects of competing the horse...I just go along to watch and enjoy.

The horse was recently entered for a Class with a winnings limit of £300. The rider rang the BSJA about a week before the competiton to check whether the horse was below the limit. BSJA confirmed this verbally and told him that the horse was eligable to compete.

They did quite well and were placed. Subsequently the BSJA have written to us saying that the horse was over the £300 at the time of the competition and have fined us.

Subsequent investigations show that his winnings were, indeed, over the £300 limit at the time but also that the BSJA say that they updated their records to show the horse's last result about a week before the rider telephoned them. So, basically the BSJA appear to have given the rider incorrect information regarding my horse's winnings (the rider is a professional and certainly knows not to enter a horse that is over the winnings limit)

Has anyone else had a similar experiance and should professional riders rely on phone calls to the BSJA to check winnings records?
 
the rules dictate that the owner (and or rider not sure to be honest) is responsible for keeping check of the horse's winnings. Meaning you should be keeping a tally at all times and not rely on info from the BSJA! You can check your own horse's record online at any time free of charge if you register with the BSJA site, you just need to be mindful if the results listed don't include some recent winnings. Even if the most recent result is there a show a week or so previous might not be if a show centre's results are late being processed.

I always used to keep a mental note of what mine had (not BSJAed in few years now ;) ) but always had to keep a rulebook to hand to ensure I knew what the correct notional winnings would be. Became very confusing at times!
 
The rule book also states that all records are kept and handled at the BSJA Office by computer. This indicates that the only true record is held by the BSJA and this could differ from your own record. Thus if you contact BSJA to check a horse's record, surely they are duty bound to give correct information?

The problem for professional riders is that they cannot check the record of a horse they do not own as the BSJA makes a charge for this and when they have a string of 10-15 horses they may be jumping, it is unrealistic to expect them to incurr such a cost. Indded, I gather it is commonplace for professional riders to ring the BSJA and check horses records.
 
as the owner of the horse then you would be able to log in online and check as i do !!

I know that i only have a certain amount left in Grade C and will also know how much i win at a show so i can work it out !!
 
As I understand it it is the owners responibility to keep tabs on winnings, this is also a useful thing to do as a matter of course just in case any discrepancies arise, after all the computer system is only as good as the information that it fed into it!

I keep a day diary for my horses into which everything is noted. At the back of the diary each horse has its own page to record competition results. I keep a record of every round jumped as well as winnings. Winnings are written down as both actual and notional. This way I can see at a glance where I stand.

I know professionals with large strings of horses are busy but keeping records is all part of the job IMO.
 
I also keep a spreadsheet with winnings for each horse I have as BS horse records can be slow in being updated. For example, our novice mare was DC and 5th in a Newcomers the last time she jumped, the weekend before last, and it wasn't on her record when I looked this morning. I know how much she has won as I have my own spreadsheet but I do recognise that this isn't really feasible for professionals with lots of horses for owners.

Fines do happen regularly. When I bought this horse she had been jumped twice - and won both classes - by a professional who got their wires crossed with the owner and she hadn't in fact been re-registered. There were two hefty fines attaching to her and so I deducted that amount from the purchase price and paid them to ensure that they were cleared and we could jump her.

So, it does happen that mis-communication leads to these things but I don't know what the norm for who does the record keeping is in professional yards. I would say that the staff in the BS membership office are really helpful and, in my experience, very accurate.
 
In my case, if the rider had not contacted the BSJA office prior to the competition to check the horses winnings, then I would have shut up and paid the fine. The fact that he did contact BSJA and they confirmed that the horse was eligible for this competition is my cause for contention.

Rule 21 says quite clearly that the BSJA hold the records of horses on computer at their office.....its all very well keeping your own record, but this needs to be checked against the BSJA record especially in the case of my horse where the rider knew his winnings were close to the cut-off. In fact it turned out that the horse was only £20 over the £300 cut off and due to his previous outing where he won. Previously he would have been about £10 under (£290). For some reason BSJA must have given the rider the points prior to the horses last result even though I have now been told that the computer records were updated a week earlier. I suppose the rider could have asked me to check the records on the BSJA website but this never entered his mind as he had spoken to the BSJA and they had confirmed the horse was eligible.

I am learning quickly...I came into this sport in May 2010 for a bit of fun and absolutely no knowledge of the rules so I rely on my professional rider for this (and he is very professional and knows what he is doing). I have been brought up to play fairly and have never had such issues with professional bodies before (I yacht raced to a fairly high level for many years).
 
I competeted a horse BS(JA) for several years for someone else, I was clearly a memeber (being the rider) and the owner was a non jumping member to register owership. We registered the horse as owned jointly so we both had free access to the records (and notification of qualifiers etc).

It worked well, I don't believe the registration has any legal basis, although in my case we hada a written agreement (like a loan agreement) which while also not legally binding showed intent

I know of several professionals who register as the owner instead or as well as the true owner for this reason (an financially) your rider may not want to do this, but it might be worth offering to share registrered ownership.
 
Have you tried explaining the situation to BS? If you explain what happened, that it was never your intend to be dishonest and that you are bringing new blood to the sport they may agree to waive the fine. They might not but it is a possibility as I've always found them very reasonable and fair.
 
to be honest it is a pain but i dont think the BSJA will care! whether you are new to the sport or not we all have the same responsibility to know our horses winnings unfortunately !!

Register online this updates every wednesday - also do you go and watch at all the shows so do you know how much you win etc ??
 
measles said:
Have you tried explaining the situation to BS? If you explain what happened, that it was never your intend to be dishonest and that you are bringing new blood to the sport they may agree to waive the fine. They might not but it is a possibility as I've always found them very reasonable and fair.
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No BSJA do not seem to care that they gave us misleading information over the phone. However, BSJA should solely exist for the benefit of the members and it would not hurt them to acknowledge that a mistake could have been made by them and refund the fine (we have paid this already as a gesture of good will to avoid any complications as we are still competing the horse). It is probably fair to other competitors if we loose the qualification that went with the result.
 
Niv2 said:
Has anyone else had a similar experiance and should professional riders rely on phone calls to the BSJA to check winnings records?
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I personally don't think it makes a difference if its a professional or not. Nobody should have to phone the BSJA, IMO the online record SHOULD always be up to date but the big problem is that the BSJA are horrifically slow at updating them! I remember last year, at one point mine was out of date by about 3 months! It was ridiculous. They have also sent me a letter accusing me of competing in a class I was ineligible for, actually that was rubbish and they admitted they were wrong - not good enough! They have also missed off a few of my results, I remember keeping my own record and when I phoned them to query why a days results had never appeared on my record they told me I wasn't at the show... ERM, I was and I have the rossettes and prize money in my hand to prove it! I'm used to it now. The BSJA aren't well organised. It took me a month of faffing around being told totally different things everytime I phoned just to get my imported horse registered. I'm also in BE and they are amazing compared to them, their results are normally up the SAME evening.
 
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Totally agree MM they do seem to be in the dark ages rather.
When I was last in the BSJA I was very thorough at keeping my horses records up to date but I suspect most people are not!! In my day job it never ceases to amaze me how bad people are with paper work so I think it is pretty bad for BS to put all of the onus back on the owner. This notional and actual makes it even more difficult.
When the OPs rider rang up and checked in good faith whether they were eligible I think it is very bad form that they are fined:eek:
 
sillygillyhorse said:
I know professionals with large strings of horses are busy but keeping records is all part of the job IMO.
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I agree, they are also likely to know what notional money the horse has won as they should be up to speed with the rules.

We used to have a string of ponies when I was younger (my sis and I) and we kept a record of everything. back then we relied on the postal service so everything was delayed and there was no Notional but still we kept a record.
 
Thanks for your replies.

My rider knew that my horse's winnings were close to the limit for the competition we entered and that is why he contacted the BSJA to confirm eligibility, which seems fair......for those of you who keep accurate running records of your own it I suspect that you would want to contact the BSJA to check that their records tallied with yours in a similar situation so as to avoid the situation I now find myself in.
 
I must say though i always get confused with how much my horse has won Notionaly though i always check online i am always suprised when they put it on sometimes for the same classes i have got the same placings but different notional ! x
 
I can never get the online log in to work?? If anyone could point me in the right direction would be great :)
The BSJA are terribly unorganised for example i have a German bred pink papered holsteiner but the always tell me he was born in Belgium..........???
They are also convinced i am a year older than i actually am !!
 
Quadro said:
I can never get the online log in to work?? If anyone could point me in the right direction would be great :)
The BSJA are terribly unorganised for example i have a German bred pink papered holsteiner but the always tell me he was born in Belgium..........???
They are also convinced i am a year older than i actually am !!
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https://online.bsja.co.uk/jet6/servlet/jetStart?rendering=0&startApplication=BSJAFramework

you should just put in your membership number and password ??
 
I have just printed off my horse's record in PDF format from the BSJA website (took me a while to figure out how to do this!)

Anyway, I was surprised to find that in the "Winnings Table" the points in the "Total" column have been printed in reverse chronological order to the rest of the information. Thus is 1st ever result in Nov 2008 is now showing a total of £396 (we have some good results in the last few weeks) and a grand total of £15 following his most recent result last week.

At the time of the show in question, anyone at the BSJA office glancing quickly at this table would have surmised his total winnings to have been £30

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that this table was referred to when my rider rang the BSJA office prior to the show.....in any case, it does illustrate that, somewhere on BSJA computer, figures are getting muddled up and how the BSJA could have given us the incorrect information regarding his winnings.

This also happens when I print out the details of my other horse, so obviously a glitch in BSJA's computer.
 
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