Bubble bits and martingales question

[hannabanana]

Is it right to put them together? I went to watch at a local show today and noticed a pony gagged up to its eyeballs with the usual horsey gadgets. I have no problem with them but I dont get it when people use all this stuff when there is no need to.
The pony was around 12.2hh and the girl was 8? Around that anyway. It was a lovely pony, carried itself nicely and a right angel considering the girl was unbalanced (understandable when there only young!) But its reins were on the second last hole on the bubble bit with a crackle noseband and a martingale. Now I am no expert but to my knowledge martingales are used to encourage the horse to not carry its head so high and the bubble bit is used to encourage a horse not to lean on the bit and not to carry its head low. (Correct me if i'm wrong!) So to ride in a bubble bit with a martingale doesnt make sense to me! I am such a novice when it comes to fancy gadgets and bits!

 

[zoelouisem]

Im not a fan of 3 ring gags so dont use them but im sure they lower the head (probaly wrong) most people use the incorrectly they should be actually used with 2 reins anyway one on the 'snaffle' and another on the other desired ring.
I think small children should ride in snaffles anyway, big bits and unbalanced kiddies dont mix its not fair on the ponies! If they cant hold the pony there overhorsed.
I make my daughter ride in a caverson and a loose ring happy mouth snaffle, that way if shes unbalanced and does take a small tug least its not going to hurt or haul his head around.

 

[FlorenceBassey]

Their is nothing wrong with using a running martingale and dutch gag as long as they are correctly fitted. why have they started being called 'bubble bits'? i understand why they get called 3 ring gag's but not 'bubble bits' at all, its a stupid term IMHO.
ps most people have their martingales so loose the don't really have any effect anyway.

 

[hannabanana]

Ha sorry, I have just picked up the name over the years, alot of local people call them bubble bits near me. Dutch Gag then, didnt mean to offend! I agree zoelouisem, the softer the bit required the better I say.

 

[Doncella]

I call them bubble bits as a sneery term for something that actually offends me, I hate the things.

 

[suzi]

The martingale will work to stop the horse putting it's head up and the poll pressure of a Dutch Gag will act to keep the head down so from that point of view they will work towards the same end result.

I rode my old Connemara in a Dutch gag (no martingale or anything else though) as it meant I could keep the same mouthpiece (french link connection) but with a little bit more stopping power XC and hunting. I rode him in a normal french link snaffle the rest of the time.

I found the Dutch gag better for him than a pelham and other gags that I was told to try. He used to chuck his head up and really run at the fence and this allowed me to check him back without constantly hauling on his mouth.

 

[zoelouisem]

Oh yer dont get me wrong im not against using stronger bits, im not a massive fan of 3 ring gags, but thats my opinion. I just think strong bits in untrained hands are not good. Small children still have alot to learn and balance to gain so they should be kept in mild bits as they do tend to pull them around more.

 

[suzi]

Yeah def agree with that!!

Was at a show the other day and saw a gorgeous 13hh pony being ridden in a pelham, martinage and the kid was wearing spurs . . . .

 

[zoelouisem]

Yeah def agree with that!!

Was at a show the other day and saw a gorgeous 13hh pony being ridden in a pelham, martinage and the kid was wearing spurs . . . .

See yes that what annoys me, she is obviously overhorsed, cant hold it do somebodies whacked a great big bit in the ponies mouth then its backing off so theyve put spurs on, and the chances are the child doesnt know how to use the equipment properly.

 

[ridersince2002]

I often ride a pony (she's not mine) who I ride in a gag with a Waterford mouthpiece and sometimes a martingale. I know it's a harsh bit, but it's the only thing she's ever had that I've had any controll in. not only does she stop when asked :O but she's carries herself beautifully in it. I don't like using a martingale with it, as if she chucks her head up she gets a jab inthe mouth, and I don't use it for jumping, only when hacking as her head comes up and she is mad! I'm always careful and try to be sypathetic with my hands as I don't want to hurt her, but I'm sure she would rather that I'm light with my hands in this bit than having a constant battle to trot rather than go off at a gallop with a Dutch gag or Kimblewick, or anything else! but that's just my opinion!

 

[hannabanana]

Thanks suzi, I was just under the impression that they contradicted (think thats how its spelt) each other. Oh yes I dont see a problem with strong bits as long as they are used properly, best to have control in a harsh bit than no control and constantly hauling on the mouth with a milder bit. And as zoelouise said, when it gets to the point when children have to use strong bits, martingales, spurs and more to control their horse they are overhorsed, plus kids arn't aware that this bit is stronger than that bit and that it applies pressure here etc. To them its a bit that helps them to control the horse, and when unbalanced should stick to milder bits.

 

[Kat]

The martingale will work to stop the horse putting it's head up and the poll pressure of a Dutch Gag will act to keep the head down so from that point of view they will work towards the same end result.

A dutch gag has a raising action not a lowering one. It uses leverage rather than poll pressure. Have a look at the sustainable dressage site for an explanation of the mechanics.

http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/bridle.php#gag

Dutch Gag bits are hugely misunderstood and for that reason I dislike them, because they are almost never used appropriately, even by supposedly knowledgeable people.

 

[beetlejuice]

it does have a raising action its great for horses that lean on the bit and encourage to hold their heads slightly above the vertical (in the correct outline) however, they are more often used for pulling horses in to overbent or false outlines, therefore, many people having the idea that they have a lowering effect. Happens lots in the competition world and are used to make the combination look pretty, regardless of whether they are working right or not.

A martingale does stop the head being raised too high but not to the point where it contradicts the action of the bit. They are good for horse that throw their heads but should not restrict a natural outline if fitted correctly.

 

[hannabanana]

Ah so it does have a raising action. Thanks for the site Kat. I know nothing about leaverage bits. But I still think its wrong to put them in a childs hands. Shame it happens alot.

 

[Firehorse]

i also hate dutch gags, and when i chose to buy my pony, who wears one, i learnt to my mistake, that this is the bit which suits him best. he was so good when i got him, i downgraded his bit and he tanked off with me several times. the scariest - downhill, breakneck speed, no control whatsoever. back in went the dutch gag and after several months of re-schooling to remind him who's in control again, we're back to square one, pony under control. a few moments of him being in control took 7 months to undo, believe it or not. probably made worse by a loss of confidence and trust on my part too. so theyre not all that bad and i've learnt to quite like it. he's an excitable pony who loves speed, and will try to go at any chance he gets, but with the correct bit, which he respects, i can contain his enthusiasm and stay safe. i hve it on the second ring, with a running martingale. altho when my son rides him in our paddock, he only needs the martingale if we put poles out, and i put the reins on the snaffle ring. and my son ALWAYS has a balance handle to use and pony is a very difficult kettle of fish in the confines of the paddock, otherwise my kids would not ride him!!

 

[Kokopelli]

Kids ponies should be in snaffles end of, if the pony isn't in a snaffle a kid shouldn't be put on it as it is not 'safe' for the child.

I am not against dutch gags as I used to use one on my connie, but I always used two reind and wouldn't dream of riding without the two reins which is another reason kids shouldn't use them as not many can ride with two reins.

 

[TallyHo123]

I'm from near where whoever has started the thread is from and lot's of people call dutch gags bubble bits :S I have never understood this!
Yes my opinion was martingale stops head rising, dutch gag helps lower.
Used with experience I think using them together is fine.

 

[Annagain]

I have a dutch gag with a waterford mouthpiece (only mouth piece my boy will tolerate as he has a deformed tongue) but it is used correctly (two reins) and I am an adult on a very strong 16.3 700kg ID x cob. We also only use it for very exciting stuff like the beach (and jumping when he was allowed) as I think that using it all the time reduces its effectiveness. I know that when I put it on him I have brakes and only use it when I really need to.
I hate seeing them on kids' ponies - it's an admission that they're overhorsed (or worse don't really need it but use it anyway) and if they're at a stage when they need to resort to a bit like that, the chances are they're already frightened of being carted off and therefore are hanging on for dear life.

They're also a bit of a a fashion accessory. When I was a kid a strong pony was ridden in a kimblewick and that was it. Not ideal either but a damn sight better than dutch gags as they couldn't really be misused inthe same way. Then I got to about 18 and all of a sudden everybody had a dutch gag.

At 11 stone and 5'6 I'm probably a bit overhorsed myself but if I didn't have him he'd have ended up going for meat and he's a bit of a darling really, albeit a b****y strong one! I'm also capable of knowing how strong a bit it is and riding accordingly, kids aren't.