Bucking and kicking out resumes...

_jetset_

_jetset_

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I just don't get it and am getting damned frustrated too!!!

Grace has been going so well the past few weeks. Since I took her flash off and changed her bit back in Feb she has been so much more forwards and pliable. This morning I took her to my trainer's for a lesson and let's just say she very very nearly had me on the deck
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Even the groom who was lunging nearby commented on how big the buck was
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The thing is, there was absolutely no bloody reason for it other than she was not going forwards so I gave her a swift pony club kick and then she just exploded. The problem is she slams on then bucks which creates a really abrupt action (and nearly sends me sailing).

We brought her back to walk, I borrowed my trainer's longer spurs and then we had a much better connection to the contact, she was rounder and more forwards, but still I felt she was just holding a bit until right near the end when she finally let go.

I have had all the checks done, you name it, it has been done! Bloods, lameness checks, saddle checks, physio etc etc. so where do I go from here?

Someone has suggested having her ovaries scanned (Worried1 on here...) but I wanted to just see when this humpy horrible behaviour was occurring. The last time was 7th February 2009 and then since then we have had a real improvement. Yes, there have been some moments, but nothing like today! She has not been this bad since 7th Feb
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So it is exactly one month ago we last had this reaction to be asking her to go forwards and she did start with it a little at Manor Grange on Saturday but nothing like today
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Any suggestions???
 
Maybe that time of the month?
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Not to be dimissive, but sounds like a typical grumpy mare to me.. I used to have a Selle mare like yours and periodically she would just get 'le hump' and buck at the leg and buck more at the whip. Usually, I'd just sit tight but 10 minutes then take her round the block for a hack instead of trying to get decent work out of her. No sense fighting about it.
 
But the reality is that she is going to have to work through it or something be done... What would happen if she behaved like that at the Regionals or Petplans because it was time of the months
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I know we have not qualified for the former yet, but it is something that I am aiming for.

The thing is, I think it is something that is niggling all the time but then blowing up at certain points, does that make sense. This morning we had the big buck then lots of plunging and bucking to the point where I couldn't even put my leg on
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What is so frustrating is that she went really well at the end, but that was after almost an hour of strops.
 
Emile suggested to us we kept a diary on Diva and there was a definite pattern occuring.

You may not even need to have the ovaries scanned you could simply have a chat to the vet and try her on Regumate. I know you are worried about it but there are ways to minimise handling.

For Diva it made a difference immediately - she is a different horse
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The vet likened it to have constant period and ovulating pains and being expected to be a high class ballerina...
 
Thanks Worried1... I have phoned the vets and am waiting for them to call me back. The vet knows me and her very well, so I am sure he will know that I would not ask for this lightly. I cannot keep fighting with her like this though, I am not sure how I managed to stay in the saddle today so it is only a matter of time and there is only me to look after the horses and I need the money from work
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I am worried about how it affected me last time, but I did mention about the pump dispenser and she was looking into it for me.

Would you mind me asking how much it works out for you a month? Last time I used it was over 8 years ago and my memory is not going back that far at the moment
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Also, how Grace is reacting, does this sound like how Diva was reacting?
 
Don't worry too much about it tbh. It's just mares. There is nothing wrong with Corroy. However, she is recently being naughty about leg yielding left and tries everything trick possible to get out of work. Believe me she has known how to leg yield for at least 9 years. There are sometimes just arsey madams.
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have you thought of trying the 'marble' - i have heard of this working brilliantly with some mares. otherwise i think i'd definitely try Regumate, if you are convinced it is mareishness and not just "stuff you i don't want to do that" ishness...!
 
iI have tried this. Didn't work. I am actually unsure whether it's still there or not. If you look into it, it doesn't have a high success rate and can be hard to breed from mares afterwards (not impossible though). Regumate does work, but it wouldn't stop Corroy doing tricks like that though tbh.
 
Ha ha... Corroy and Han are so alike. Han has been doing rein back for years and then on Sunday she suddenly decided she was going to just have a complete panic attack about the whole thing
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Grace's isn't like that though, she is not usually a marey mare. In all the time I owned her before her crap year she never reacted when she was in season. People would say she was the gelding of the mare world
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That is why I am wondering whether there is something not quite right in there... Also, this is not just being awkward, it is getting to the stage where I would be really hurt trying to get her to work
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[ QUOTE ]
have you thought of trying the 'marble' - i have heard of this working brilliantly with some mares. otherwise i think i'd definitely try Regumate, if you are convinced it is mareishness and not just "stuff you i don't want to do that" ishness...!

[/ QUOTE ]

Will have a chat to the vet about this too, thanks...

I am not 100% convinced there is not some aspect of 'Can't, shan't won't', but I do feel that this is not the whole picture at the moment, especially not today.
 
Afraid so
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She resented the leg and initially we racked our brains wondering if she had a sore tummy/side.

She would stop dead and buck or simply kick against the leg - at times it was incredible how she appeared to deliberately aim for Mark's foot! Couple of times she hit the stirrup.

I was at my wit's end and it was horrible watching her so unhappy under saddle.

She would get better as the session continued but pretty much every session started with a real battle.

I got to the point where I was either going to turn her away and ignore her or literally send her to a dealer - By now I had spent three years and enormous amounts of money over an animal which amounted to little more than a miserable rabbit.
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Mark is a very talented rider and watching him struggle destroyed my confidence as if he couldn't do it there was no way I could!

A 1000ml bottle costs just over £100, it is dispensed at 15ml/day gives me 66 days worth - so works out at about £50/month.

So I took a radical decision... rather than waste my money on supplements and expensive feed balancers she will now get regumate and 'normal' feed. So I save £35 on Outshine, £34 on a Vitamin E & Selenium and £20 on a Glucosamine.

I reckon it works out about the same - for the first year my insurance company will pay for it as well so that's a bonus
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Our young mare is lovely and willing until the few days every cycle when she becomes a total and utter pain in the arse. Her handling on the ground doesn't change much she just becomes unwilling and really argumentative huge bucks and spinning, its as if a switch goes in her brain, when it switches off again (2 days later shes fine and sweet) It took us keeping a diary to notice the pattern.
We were desperate and investigated using regumate or the marble method as it was getting downright dangerous to be ridden in this period. Someone on here suggested global herbs frisky mare plus. It gets into the system really quick and works brilliantly.
Thank God
 
I think you are possibly looking into this is little bit too much (and I am dreadful for this too!). I used to ride a Gribaldi gelding who did exactly the same thing.

She has had a long period of time off- you are upping the work and she is testing the boundaries. She just sounds like she is being rude to me!

What do you do after she has stopped and bucked?
 
Worried1... sounds exactly the same
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She backs off and backs off and then when I put my leg on stronger she slams on in front at the same time as she gives a huge buck which is killing my back. I honestly felt more confident the last few weeks, but although she does not worry me as such, it is definitely knocking my confidence of being a firm and determined rider as I am sitting there backing off when she starts acting like this because I feel there is actually nothing I can do
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There was a great improvement over the past couple of weeks, but as I said, there is still something niggling which then gets really severe at one point.
 
I am having a similar problem as you but only when hacking. My mare is a saint in the school and to handle even when in season but over the past week or so when I have hacked her our she has started stopping/spooking and then will not move forwards. When you ask her to move forwards she goes backwards and then kicks out. When she does finally go forward we do it at great speed. Last week she nearly backed into a car that was trying to pass us on the road. I am thinking about trying her on Nupafeed but not sure how it will affect her
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think you are possibly looking into this is little bit too much (and I am dreadful for this too!). I used to ride a Gribaldi gelding who did exactly the same thing.

She has had a long period of time off- you are upping the work and she is testing the boundaries. She just sounds like she is being rude to me!

What do you do after she has stopped and bucked?

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I kick her on and make sure she is forwards again straight away. I do not let up, other than a quick regaining of my balance. But I refuse to let up on her with that behaviour. This morning though it started in the left canter and we just had to bring her back to walk because she just would not stop bucking and that is probably one of the worst she has been. The more I put my leg on the worse she got.

As I have said, I do think some of this is her being 'no, no, no' to me, but then I do know this mare and this is not her! Before her time off she would very rarely act like this, and I was asking more of her then than I am right now. OK, she had a long period off, but she has now been back in work since June 2008 so in 8 months I would be expecting to see an improvement in this reaction, which I am not seeing.
 
We went down the whole route - she had her back x-rayed, hocks x-rayed, feet x-rayed, teeth checked, bloods etc.

The first time her ovaries were scanned they showed nothing the second time it was apparent that there was something going on.

I appreciate to an outside person it might appear that they were being naughty but the bottom line is mares, for whatever reason, can be tricky.

If someone wanted to come along and try and beat Diva through it they would have been most welcome but I think she would have decked them
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Also wanted to say that the chances are she would have decked someone and then added a whole new bow to her string.

She would realise she could deposit a rider and then I think we really would have been in trouble - an unrideable, hormonal, angry mare who learnt to deposit people.

Now I have a lovely sweet mare, who is trainable and most important much happier
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Thanks Worried1... that is the thing with Grace, I simply cannot just keep riding her through it because that it when she just looses it completely. You can't bully her through it either because as you have said about Diva, she would just put you and probably herself on the floor
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Something is screaming to me that there is something not quite right... I know I am a worrier, stress head etc etc but there is something that is just telling me there is more to this behaviour when she was not like this before. I have put it down to her coming into work etc. but perhaps as she has become more mature (she will be 8 this year) the hormones have changed.
 
If I ever work out how to I will show you the video of Corroy's behaviour when on one, she will not be bullied. Now I know there is NOTHING wrong with her hormones, back etc etc. Now I am not saying this is the case with Grace, but you may have to accept that is the way she is, you can go on forever making excuses for them. Maybe she has learnt just how to dominate you?
 
This is similar behaviour to my mare who it turned out had PSD.

I had the back treated and the ovaries scanned and umpteen dietary experiments. There was no lameness just inappropriate behaviour. Has she had her hocks re-checked since she came back to work ?
 
Yes, she has been for check ups every couple of months since she came back into work, the last one being at the end of January 2009. I honestly do not think it is at all related because her hind legs are working really well at the moment and I am a complete fanatic about watching them on the lunge
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M_M... I know this is something I may just have to accept, but it is a real 'get off me' reaction rather than 'I don't feel like it' one... does that make sense???
 
Sorry _Jetset_ that I can't offer any advice as my only experience of mares was with my mum's when I was growing up BUT I will say this....

It has been my experience (and maybe i've just been lucky) that horses don't react like this for no reason... there is naughtiness and there are reactions to pain/discomfort and I think from what you've said it is the latter with Grace and I would be inclined to agree with you!

The Gelding I am riding at the moment can do a similar thing.... be working fine and then wham, slam the brakes on and leap up and down! At first I thought it was spooking (as the owner says he is veryspooky and jumps up and down) but then I started to take more notice of when he did it and it was often towards the end of a schooling session or after he'd warmed up (not at first)!

I thoroughly checked him all over, my initial thoughts were it was his saddle causing discomfort, but I found a tiny sarcoid in the crease of skin high up on one of his back legs! I told his owner and she arranged for the vet to come and take a look when her other horse had some treatment.

Within a week it had almost doubled in size and the vet said it would be causing him lots of discomfort and would explain his behaviour! Since he's been treated for it, touch wood he's been fine!

Bit pointless I know but thought it may give you some confidence to trust your feelings and get it checked out!

Sxx
 
Thanks Pasha... I completely agree with you, I think there is something niggling. But it is something that pretty much fades out and then comes back with a huge wham
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That is why I am moving towards it being hormonal. I have kept a diary (thanks to the advice of Worried1 a while ago) and having read through it for the last month I have been really pleased with her and then a few days ago we started with the kicking out and bucking at the whip and leg again. Before this, I could flick her up with the whip and get the correct reaction of forwards.
 
I would either try her on regumate and see what happens, or bute her for a fortnight and see what happens.

But I imagine the regumate might be the answer.
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xx
 
Thanks... tried the bute in the past, no difference unfortunately (or fortunately... )
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My vet has not phoned me back today bu I know they are hugely busy at the moment with mares being scanned etc. so hopefully will speak to him tomorrow sometime
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I would def try the regumate, If you can get it from a vet that treats farm animals, you can get pig regumate which is exactly the same , the bottle is twice the size and its half the price, not sure if this is what you based your pricing on Worried_1? If not it might be worth you looking into too!
 
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