Building grids

[Ambers Echo]

I can't seem to build a grid that Amber jumps through fluidly though she does in training when other people build them! So any ideas what I might be doing wrong?

I had a look at this website but it confuses me as the distances between the poles vary so much and I can't see the logic. Eg between jump 1 and 2 is 18 feet and between 2 & 3 is 21 feet. Any basic guidelines for horse strides and for pony strides. Thanks!

https://everythinghorseuk.co.uk/a-beginners-guide-to-gridwork/

 

[sportsmansB]

The variation between the first two is to with with approaching in trot v approaching in canter - if you look at the bottom one where you canter in, the distances are the same throughout. Will also be different if you put an oxer in the middle, for example, as the horse will land farther out.
All horses will be slightly different though - can you build one according to the pictures but have someone there to move them a touch if they don't suit you?

 

[ihatework]

It’s all a bit dependant on the size of the horse, length of their stride, the type of fences and what you are trying to achieve with the grid and if you approach in trot or canter.

I have to say, I probably couldn’t tell you a measurement! I build things off eye/feel and just know ‘my’ walking strides. Has happened over years of walking courses & distances.

I’d probably chat with your instructor about it and ask them to show you. Then after each session walk all the distances a few times to you can try and regulate your own striding.

I’ve got it to the point where a standard competition double is built to 8 of my strides. 2 for landing/take off and 4 for a stride. So I can recreate that or build slightly longer/shorter depending on what I need to achieve

 

[Ambers Echo]

The variation between the first two is to with with approaching in trot v approaching in canter - if you look at the bottom one where you canter in, the distances are the same throughout.

It says use the pole to canter then it's a cross and 18 feet to an upright, then 21 feet. But you take off and land in canter over that first X?

I also stride standard doubles as 8 strides when walking courses but 8 strides in a grid seems too long. In my kitchen a stride is 2.25 feet so 8 strides is 18 feet but I think I might stride longer out doors as that seems too short!! Anyone know what a standard horse single stride double is in feet?

 

[JFTDWS]

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10155617350905947&id=109161715946

I'm not sure if that link works - it's all in feet though... The page is pretty interesting generally.

In theory do 8 strides for a lone double, approaching from a fairly forward (SJ) canter, but would make them shorter in a grid - particularly if there are bounces, as the canter is generally shorter.

That said, the mare actually takes a 7 stride lone double, but fences are always small for her currently. Dae might make 8 if he was really moving forward over a decent fence, but Fergus, even at maximum onward boundness never makes more than 7, and usually a comfortable 6. But they're midgets

 

[Red-1]

Standard horse strides over a decent course, in a decent size ring, are 12ft per stride.

Then when training you knock a bit off for lower fences, a bit off for a smaller arena and you don't want the distances too long as you want to encourage the horse to round rather than flatten.

So, if you have only just struck off into canter over the pole it would be a 9ft pole to a jump as a bounce. Or, 18 ft to a small fence. Then to the next you will already be moving on so 21ft would work. If the fences are getting bigger you could go 24 ft to another, but beware of making the horse flatten.

With a horse still learning to balance and engage I would rather have the distances a bit short so they don't dive on the forehand. But, when push comes to shove, you are training towards being able to jump at a competition, where the distances will be 12ft per stride, so I will look to open the stride whilst keeping the horse balanced. I only concern myself with this once jumping 95-1m, and you can use ground poles before, after and between a related distance, to allow the stride to be the correct length and in the correct pattern, without flattening the stride.

 

[be positive]

You need to walk distances consistently otherwise it is fairly pointless, a horse canter stride is based on the 'ideal' of 12 ft with some tweaks depending on what the builder is trying to do, so all your gridwork needs to be done to 12 ft for the horse and 10ft for the pony, once you know how to walk a 3ft stride you can put poles and fences in the correct place.

Just seen Red has pretty much said what I planned to.

 

[Rowreach]

You need to practise walking in 3 foot strides - so I know that a big stride for me is 3 foot. Makes it much easier to set up grids and combinations if you know what your 3 foot stride feels like.

 

[be positive]

Just wanted to check my average stride and is is easily 3ft so you are either taking very short normal steps or have extremely short legs, mine are not long!!

 

[Bernster]

Lawks following with interest as I’m rubbish at remembering these! I need to practise more but it never seems to stick in my brain despite me copyingnhandy articles and stuff. Will check out some of the above!

 

[Ambers Echo]

Thanks for the link JFTD and the replies everyone.

Ok so assuming I learn to stride 3 feet the rules are:

Canter poles (12 feet?)

Pole to the first jump (18 feet?)

First jump to the 2nd and from the 2nd to the 3rd assuming all uprights (Anywhere between 18 and 21 feet?)

If I want a bounce in there how far between fences? (9 feet?)

If I finish on an oxer does that make a difference? If I have one in the middle how much more do I add to each side of it?

Thanks!! Tamarack Hill Farm would not be impressed but like Bernster this stuff does not stick on my brain!

 

[ihatework]

A bounce is just a canter stride with fences involved. 9ft would be on the short side for most horses, if building that short you would definitely want to come in trot and be on something established enough to shorten sufficiently. It’s not wrong, but again it’s about the horse and the purpose behind the striding.

 

[JFTDWS]

Thanks!! Tamarack Hill Farm would not be impressed but like Bernster this stuff does not stick on my brain!

He has high standards - I'm not sure many folk would meet them! (I don't think in feet, so he wouldn't like me either, I do c.3' strides, but I adjust hugely for the horse/question!) He posts quite a lot of interesting discussions about jump training though which are worth a read (even if you don't agree with everything!).

 

[Ambers Echo]

Ok so 12 feet for a bounce between 2 fences, but 9 feet for a pole to the first fence as a bounce (which I think is what Red said?)

What happens if you have poles in the middle?

In lessons we often start with say 6 poles and then end with a few fences and a couple of poles some 1 stride and some bounces.

So I could have pole - bounce - jump -bounce - jump -stride - jump- stride - pole -bounce - jump.

Would that be 9, 12, 18, 18, 9? Or 9,12,18,18, 12.??

Or something else!

 

[ihatework]

18ft would be a very short 1 strided double.

Think about it .... walking a course you want to walk a double on 8 human strides (which as people have helpfully reminded me!) is 24 feet - so 2 strides (6ft) for each take off & landing and 12ft for the stride.

Now you won’t always train to that length in a grid, but even so, 18ft is short. I can’t tell you what your training length should be, it’s dependant on your horse and your aims. But from the little I’ve seen she looks forwards and scopey so my gut feeling is building to 18ft would be too short.

Ask your instructor to write you down a few different grid plans, as they know how you jump

 

[Ambers Echo]

Sorry I meant 24! 4 strides plus 2 for landing and 2 for take off. My maths is as bad as my striding!!

 

[Ambers Echo]

But less for grids..... how much less? I'll try over the weekend and build them around 21 I think and see how that feels. My instructor does it in yards! Which totally baffles me!! So she's no help though I could literally get off after a lesson and stride it out myself I guess? But I don't have a grid work lesson in the dairy atm though.

 

[Red-1]

A yard is just 3 feet - so hopefully one of your strides.

When we were training we had to march out distances then have them measured, and we repeated this until you could be accurate! That would be right up to a related distance. As a cheat, a standard jump pole is likely to be 12' and once you have confirmed that you have a checker.

As a rough guide a pony was a 3 yard stride and a horse 4 yard stride. This then, rather helpfully, fitted in with your own strides.

Yes, 9 ft for a canter place pole. If the first fence is then just a X pole then 18 ft to the next as the fence as small and the canter just warming up. Then 21 to 24 ft depending on the horse/height of fence/ size of arena and what you are hoping to achieve.

Genuinely I would approach a big training centre and ask if you can have a lesson in building grids for their exam students. I did this ad infanitum. You get to see how horses go down the grid. But, for it to be effective as a learning event for you it would have to be with sport horses similar to your own, not hairy ponies. Hence recommending a big exam centre/competition type place.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Thanks! Ok I have a plan. I will finally crack this..... Thanks so much.

 

[ihatework]

Deffo get off and walk your distances after a lesson, that will help the most. And get your instructor to email you some plans, they will know better than us.

I was trying to find some useful examples but failed! Only one I could find was my big young horse, but he’s not the best example as he has a huge stride. Here he jumped down 12ft to 24ft to 35ft. He still finds a standard 24ft double tight, so we only shorten him at the moment of 2+ strides. If we trained him at even 21ft at the moment it would cause problems. So it’s really about knowing your horse.

 

[Red-1]

I would not over think it, just have a play and adjust, keeping it small. With a stuffy horse often the distances would have to be shorter at the start of a session to gain confidence, and would lengthen out as the horse operated. This gives a different feel to pushing a horse flat from the start.

I would quite often have a line of canter poles, and work at getting a rhythmic, rounded but open canter. It is getting the power without pushing them flat that is the trick.

Another rick I found was to download an app on your phone that is a metronome, and work at keeping a canter to a rhythm. If you were to metronome several top riders you will find that their horses go in a very similar speed of the rhythm. I did an Olympics SJ once, all but one horse was metronome perfect to the rest.

 

[Red-1]

Found this on Youtube... She is basing it on a 21 ft, or 3 1/2 yard stride which is keeping the horse short and bouncy, not flattening.

 

[ihatework]

Found this on Youtube... She is basing it on a 21 ft, or 3 1/2 yard stride which is keeping the horse short and bouncy, not flattening.

OP that’s a really useful video for you.
Also just watch the horse the last time down - when the fences are bigger, see how he moves left to the last oxer and in doing so gives himself a fraction more room?

 

[Red-1]

OP that’s a really useful video for you.
Also just watch the horse the last time down - when the fences are bigger, see how he moves left to the last oxer and in doing so gives himself a fraction more room?

I noticed that too, I am an eventer-jumper rather than a SJ'er and I prefer to have the final bigger fence on a more forward stride. She did make it ascending though to give a bit more room, but yes, I hate un-comfy jumps and am not as precise to keep the distances short.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Thanks so much for posting that video. Really helpful. So if you build the grid up would you just extend the distance a smidge over the final couple of bigger fences? Say another half a yard?

 

[Red-1]

I would see how your horse manages the grid and adjust to that. Some horses are naturally up and down and need to learn to cover ground without becoming flat, whereas some are too onward and need to learn to balance. I usually start nearer to where they are now, and adjust towards the stride I am looking to achieve.

If you lengthen out too soon you will end up with a horse flattening both in stride and jump, causing running on the forehand and a fence (or 3) down.

If you shorten too much too soon you will likely end up with the rider pulling, making the horse invert. Or, the horse can panic and rush, even missing strides out. Or, as ihatework says, the horse can start to not be straight in order to give itself more space.

If you are not sure what to start at, start with canter poles and find a distance where the horse can canter in balance through a good few poles. 3 poles is not enough, 5 is OK, 7 is better. Canter poles are great for keeping discipline and balance. Once a horse is popping down a line of poles in good form a fence at the end is effortless.

 

[flying_high]

I walk whatever my instructor sets up in pigeon steps - one foot in front of another, so I can reproduce the distances, in a non subjective way. (I don't really jump, but do lots of polework etc.)

 

[Ambers Echo]

Success! I think!! Do these distances look ok?

She still scatters canter poles which is annoying but as soon as fences go up she pays more attention. The poles are plastic and light so easily scatterable.

One thing though - I was striding these 3 strides per canter poles and checked with a tape measure and I realised that when striding I start with my heel against the first pole so stride 1 is a foot longer than strides 2 & 3! Does this matter??

 

[ihatework]

That looks fine.
I have no clue what you mean in your last paragraph though. If they distances measure differently it’s probably because your paces aren’t even

 

[Ambers Echo]

Stride 1 goes from toe to toe. But you also have the length of the foot added assuming you start with your heel againt the pole. Strides 2 & 3 don't.... Am I overthinking this!