Building neck muscle/topline

[emfen1305]

I'm sure this has been done to death but looking for some advice. I have a cob x with a very weedy, ewe like neck with a fair amount of underneck muscle. I have been working on this for a while but doesn't seem to be getting any better! He is currently in work 4 days a week (due to the clocks changing) and then 6 days in the summer. When ridden and lunged, his default is to stick his head in the air and and rush around like a hollow giraffe through his shoulders and chest until he is warmed up properly and then he will drop his head and round his back. I wouldn't say he works in a consistent outline but it is much improved. He does have an over track in walk and tracks up normally in trot (i don't know if this is relevant?) He is currently hacked out twice a week, a mix of nice and relaxed, long rein etc and then picked up and made to do basic lateral work and transitions. He is also worked twice a week on the equiami over poles which seems to help until he starts rushing and then the head comes back up! Is there anything else I can shift some of this underneck muscle or am I expecting too much even after 2 years? I don't think he will ever have that typical "show cob crest" and I am absolutely not in any rush so not looking for over night fixes, just any other exercises that I can do to help..

This picture is the most recent and really demonstrates his neck muscle, this is typically where he holds his head when we first get started.. (apologies for the size!)

And one from side on

 

[Pinkvboots]

I think a really good neck comes from good consistent work which he is not doing yet so I think you have a way to go and as you know it does take time, have you tried strapping there are some really good videos on youtube, I have done it with mine in the past and it definitely helps.

do you use haynets they can make the problem worse in some cases so might be worth ditching them if you can,.

 

[Shay]

He looks lovely!

There isn't a lot of information to go on; but some thoughts...

Have you ever had a lameness workup done? When was his tack & back last checked? You go get a "chicken and egg" thing with the hollow back leading to difficulty working through which leads to pain which leads to a hollow back etc. Also I would wonder about SI or hock issues for the same reason. I can't see the hind limb conformation but his left hind toe appears slightly pointed out in the second photo. The fact that he initially works well in the equi ami but then starts to rush also points to pain somewhere - or at the least fatigue.

How old is he? There is a lot of bone there and I wonder if he has had enough time to develop properly as a youngster. Whether some of your issues stem from him just not knowing how to carry himself and a rider correctly.

Do you have a regular instructor and what do they say? If you don't could you get one for a bit? All sorts of rider oddities and habits can impact the horse's ability to work through.

How fit is he? Does he actually have the fitness level to do what you are asking? Again this arises because you say he starts work correctly then hollows and rushes. Have you considered cushings / PSSM or other conditions which might make his muscles fatigue more quickly?

For me - I would probably start with tack / back and work on from there. But as I said - based on 2 photos and 1 paragraph... I could be completely off base!

 

[emfen1305]

I think a really good neck comes from good consistent work which he is not doing yet so I think you have a way to go and as you know it does take time, have you tried strapping there are some really good videos on youtube, I have done it with mine in the past and it definitely helps.

do you use haynets they can make the problem worse in some cases so might be worth ditching them if you can,.

No but I have heard of it! I do massage his neck and back areas using the techniques my physio showed me but will look into strapping!

No he's fed from a haybar and then feed from a bucket on the floor but has only been doing this for a year or so (before it was haynets!) Thanks

 

[Orangehorse]

OK, it is a gadget, but an EquiAmi is good. It isn't like a Pessoa which catches them in the mouth every step there is far more freedom. It connects front and back. It is only recommended to use for a maximum 20 minutes a session.

 

[Pinkvboots]

No but I have heard of it! I do massage his neck and back areas using the techniques my physio showed me but will look into strapping!

No he's fed from a haybar and then feed from a bucket on the floor but has only been doing this for a year or so (before it was haynets!) Thanks

I have Arabs and they tend to like to hollow and stick there nose in the air and they tend to do it when distracted mainly, it's taken me a lot of years to master the art of getting them to keep in an outline even at the most scary exciting moments so I totally understand!

I think what shay has mentioned about saddle fit, back teeth and ruling out any physical reason he may be having is a very good idea.

do you have lessons with him at the moment?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Hill work, make sure he really walks out going up hill, so that he is using himself. Don't worry about 'an outline' but use your seat and legs to encourage him to use his hindquarters properly. In the school, polework, has a similar effect. When you trot on a hack, don't let him rush, keep the trot steady and rythmic, by using your seat and keeping the rise rythmic. This will help him to develop the correct hind muscles and transfer his weight from front to back, which will in turn, lead to him developing the correct musculataure in front too.
Does he have some Appaloosa blood? They all seem to be naturally ewe-necked if left to their own devices.

 

[emfen1305]

He looks lovely!

There isn't a lot of information to go on; but some thoughts...

Have you ever had a lameness workup done? When was his tack & back last checked? You go get a "chicken and egg" thing with the hollow back leading to difficulty working through which leads to pain which leads to a hollow back etc. Also I would wonder about SI or hock issues for the same reason. I can't see the hind limb conformation but his left hind toe appears slightly pointed out in the second photo. The fact that he initially works well in the equi ami but then starts to rush also points to pain somewhere - or at the least fatigue.

How old is he? There is a lot of bone there and I wonder if he has had enough time to develop properly as a youngster. Whether some of your issues stem from him just not knowing how to carry himself and a rider correctly.

Do you have a regular instructor and what do they say? If you don't could you get one for a bit? All sorts of rider oddities and habits can impact the horse's ability to work through.

How fit is he? Does he actually have the fitness level to do what you are asking? Again this arises because you say he starts work correctly then hollows and rushes. Have you considered cushings / PSSM or other conditions which might make his muscles fatigue more quickly?

For me - I would probably start with tack / back and work on from there. But as I said - based on 2 photos and 1 paragraph... I could be completely off base!

Sorry, I have an awful habit of writing absolutely loads so I tried to be succinct haha!

So we had a lameness work up back in Jan this year and found to have ulcers which we treated and mild changes in hocks so he was medicated and rehabbed and brought back into work and has been going well since with regular physio (every other month) and I have seen a huge improvement in his posture (he used to stand with his back legs camped under) and his length of stride is much better now though we do still have a way to go with that.. I don't think he is 100% comfortable but have agreed with my vet that I should crack on with him until something obvious appears (or until he breaks using my vet's words!) just so that we have something to work with as currently we would just be a taking a punt. I was very lucky to get the bone scan paid for by the insurance so just biding my time for now! The lunging was recommended by vet and physio to help build up his hind end and back muscles to take the pressure off his hocks, he is always lunged using the entire school and not on a circle so not to exacerbate the hock issues!

He's 10 and had a pretty bad start to life from what I was told before I got him, rescued from a field as a youngster with horrendous rainscald and then driven a fair amount so don't think he was given the best chance to start with which is why I think he had the issues he did when he came to me.

I did have an instructor quite regularly but it petered off and with me dropping his days down, I thought i'd just give him the winter off lessons as don't like to have him in the school too many days in a row! I will definitely be picking this back up once we are over the worst of it!

I like to think he is a fairly fit, he has been in consistent work since coming back into work in January - 6 days a week in the summer of a mix of work and 4 days a week now, I'm under no illusion he is eventing fit but he can jump a 70 cm course and have a good canter on the stubbles without collapsing! Sorry I should have been clearer, it's usually the other way round, starts out horrible and hollow and then once warmed up he will work nicely until he say gets a bad stride to a pole then he hollows to get over it or the transition from walk to trot he may hollow for 2/5 transitions.. does that make sense? So he's very inconsistent with when he does it, usually though he will hollow if he gets distracted ie if another horse walks by the arena or if what I ask him to do is hard so I understand what you mean. I considered cushings but wanted to build the savings pot back up a little bit before spending money on getting the vet out (though i understand the test is free so something to consider again!) and he was tested for PSSM1 but came back negative, I do keep him on a PSSM diet with added Vit E oil though as vit e is just generally good! He has soft bum muscles generally.

I hope this gives a bit more detail, sorry if i get rambly in places! I think maybe his bad start combined with the issues he was harbouring when I got him meant that he just really doesn't know how to work correctly and comfortably, he has massively improved so maybe it is just a little more time?

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed response with lots of probing questions, i hope my answers don't come across as defensive, it makes me feel better that you are asking lots of things I am already working towards or have ruled out as it must mean I am sort of on the right lines!

 

[emfen1305]

OK, it is a gadget, but an EquiAmi is good. It isn't like a Pessoa which catches them in the mouth every step there is far more freedom. It connects front and back. It is only recommended to use for a maximum 20 minutes a session.

Yes I had a pessoa and he didn't like it, he is much more accepting of the EquiAmi and I like not having to faff with the knots!

 

[emfen1305]

I have Arabs and they tend to like to hollow and stick there nose in the air and they tend to do it when distracted mainly, it's taken me a lot of years to master the art of getting them to keep in an outline even at the most scary exciting moments so I totally understand!

I think what shay has mentioned about saddle fit, back teeth and ruling out any physical reason he may be having is a very good idea.

do you have lessons with him at the moment?

I think I need to learn this art haha! He used to default to pinning his chin into his chest any time i squeezed the reins so we have come a long way!

He's had all the checks but wrote my reply before I saw this! Can't 100% rule out pain but we also have no idea where to start so continuing work until he gets better or worse! No lessons at the moment but will definitely be picking them back up once the weather improves!

 

[emfen1305]

Hill work, make sure he really walks out going up hill, so that he is using himself. Don't worry about 'an outline' but use your seat and legs to encourage him to use his hindquarters properly. In the school, polework, has a similar effect. When you trot on a hack, don't let him rush, keep the trot steady and rythmic, by using your seat and keeping the rise rythmic. This will help him to develop the correct hind muscles and transfer his weight from front to back, which will in turn, lead to him developing the correct musculataure in front too.
Does he have some Appaloosa blood? They all seem to be naturally ewe-necked if left to their own devices.

Thank you - great advice about the trot, hadn't even considered that as a factor, just let him bimble along using it as a fitness tool rather than anything else! Unfortunately it is very flat round us however we do have a short route that is a bit up and down so could do that a couple of times!

I don't know his breeding unfortunately, bit of a heinz 57 but he has the stubbornness of an Appaloosa sometimes so I am inclined to think so haha!

 

[Midlifecrisis]

OP just a thought...the throat latch in the bridle shot looks like there is no room to allow for comfort when a drop in head and neck position prior to rounding and self carriage taking place - and that might be a reason for the errr..giraffe impression whilst working hence no topline muscle being developed.

 

[emfen1305]

OP just a thought...the throat latch in the bridle shot looks like there is no room to allow for comfort when a drop in head and neck position prior to rounding and self carriage taking place - and that might be a reason for the errr..giraffe impression whilst working hence no topline muscle being developed.

Thanks, this is his show bridle and just like this for the photoshoot but will double check is normal one to make sure too!

 

[PapaverFollis]

Add in some baited stretches and slow walking over raised poles (Just leading, doesn't have to be ridden) too.