Building/ riding for a jumping canter

[Ambers Echo]

I got a lot of really useful tips from the dressage peeps on a dressage question so looking for more advice - this time on jumping.

Lottie has a weak, flat canter. My RI had me doing walk to canter on a 10m circle then immediately tight turn to the jump with no more than 2 straight strides before the fence to not let the canter flatten before she gets there. She found it hard to jump out of that and RI said that's becasue she is weak and this sort of exercise will help.

She is listening much better and not accelerating which is good but still does not make a good enough shape over the fence as she is not got enough power or jump in the canter. Grids would be good but I don;t havce space to build one. Are there any good exercises I can do at home over poles or raised poles in a 20X40?

She already does hill work twice a week and a pro core trainer lunging session over poles once a week.

My riding is part of the the problem as my RI said she wanted to get on and shpow me the canter I needed - implying Lottie could give me that canter but I was not asking for it correctly. So how can I ride to get a more bouncy adjustible canter?

TIA!

 

[DiNozzo]

I'd suspect it's not so much that you're not asking for it correctly, but that you are and because she's weak she struggles to give it, and you're not a strong enough rider to give her the support she needs to maintain it. Your RI can do it because they spend a lot more time in the saddle than you can.

I'd keep doing what you're doing to build her strength and asking for the collection will become easier for her so she can respond to you.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I'd keep doing what you're doing to build her strength and asking for the collection will become easier for her so she can respond to you.

Thanks for replying. Do you just mean keep the hills and lungeing? Or also that walk-canter, tight turn to the fence exercise too? We have been doing the hills and lungeing for months now and her body shape has totally transformed - but that improved strength does not seem to have translated to jumping. So I was wondering if I also need exercise that get her cantering the way she needs to. Ie build a better canter by getting a better canter through various canter exercises. Or do I just need to be more patient and the general conditioning work will help.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

I think what you’ve been doing will pay off eventually. But I’ve used raised canter poles and bounces for a similar horse, plus (counterintuitively) lots of jumping out of trot to really make them use their back end. For making them use themselves properly from trot, big X poles seem to work best IME. establishing a walk-canter will also help, and once that’s in place, doing one a few strides out from a fence would help too. You’ll have to see what works for her though, because for another horse I had gridwork/raised poles blew her brain.

PS. I’m not claiming to be an expert, just someone who has had a couple of horses with that sort of flat canter!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Lots of ways to get more jump in the canter. The conditioning work you're doing will help too.

Perfecting the walk-canter and canter-walk transitions will help. I also like to do these transitions and others in shoulder in. Maintaining the shoulder in before, during, and after the transition.

I also find that lateral work in the canter, such as leg yielding can free up the back a bit and also get the horse weighting the outside hind more, while achieving a bit more jump.

Perfecting your half halt is definitely useful too.

You can also do a series of canter poles or bounces.

Or try a walk pirouette into the canter to think about weighting the hind end. Transitions within the canter are useful too, and this will give you more adjustability over time as well.

Basically, as with most things, in my amateur opinion, it comes from the hind end. If you strengthen the hind end, you'll be able to get more power. The power then gives you more impulsion and jump in the canter to combat thr flatness. A strong core is needed in both horse and rider

It's just a slow and steady grind really, but it does pay off. I have a horse who is a very economical mover with zero suspension, so creating that has been a journey of sorts. We also do reverse sets to help strengthen the core and hind end. Slow, steady, straight.

I am speaking from a dressage perspective but I think my horses dressage background with these exercises is what makes him such a good jumper. His form over fences is quite good and he has power "on tap" if that makes sense.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Some great ideas to try. Thank-you x

 

[DiNozzo]

Thanks for replying. Do you just mean keep the hills and lungeing? Or also that walk-canter, tight turn to the fence exercise too? We have been doing the hills and lungeing for months now and her body shape has totally transformed - but that improved strength does not seem to have translated to jumping. So I was wondering if I also need exercise that get her cantering the way she needs to. Ie build a better canter by getting a better canter through various canter exercises. Or do I just need to be more patient and the general conditioning work will help.

Sorry, I was in the middle of sorting tea! I only meant to reply to the last part.

I would keep the hills and lunging going, but also as you ride (anywhere, hacking/schooling/gallops) working on moving between pace and developing her sit strength more. Lots and lots of transitions in canter.

I wouldn't, personally, use that exercise much unless I was working on something else (my position for instance), because I think it becomes a bit crutch-like.

I'd do lots of poles in all paces. 4 on a circle a 12, 3, 6, and 9. Pick up canter and come round on the circle. Keeping coming in a rhythm until you can get the same number reliably. Then, between poles 12 and 3, sit and shorten the canter until you can get 2 less strides. Open the canter back up to normal as quickly as you can. Ideally the next half circle should have the same number of strides as normal. You can increase the challenge (and her strength) by increasing/decreasing the number of strides. Because she's on a circle and there are poles out it should help you keep a rhythm and her all together through her bend. You can even put poles out at both ends of the arena and do the exercise as a figure of 8 if she's clever enough to change.

ETA: You can do small grids in a 20x40 if you can be bothered setting them up! I used to do 4 bounces down the centre line, but you do have to be quick to steer.

 

[TheMule]

Lots of cavaletti!
Incorporate bounce sets into your work 2-3 times a week. This builds the canter and helps the strength for jumping but without hammering the limbs over actual fences the whole time. Ingrid Klimke is the go-to for cavaletti exercises

 

[LEC]

another for cavaletti - I have loads of them at home now not that I can use them until ground dries out! I think they really help to put shape into the canter.

what size is your arena? 20x40? I have so many exercises I use. What kit do you have?

 

[Ambers Echo]

Yes 20X40.

I don't have any cavaletti but could make a set of up to 5 raised poles using jump wings and blocks. Or 4 raised poles and a jump at the end. Plenty of poles to use but not that many wings/blocks.

 

[paddi22]

I spent years trying to improve one horses canter, sent it to a dressage pro and she got 100% better canter in 3 weeks. The horse had awful conformation and needed to learn how to shift it's weight back and balance/push from behind in the canter, and I just wasn't a strong enough rider to do it. some horses just need to be taught to canter correctly, and it can be really really tricky with some. the pro was strong enough to really sit and hold the canter until the horse understood. I think I just didn't have the core strength to do and I would still probably to trying to fix it now if I hadn't sent the horse to her!

 

[Carrottom]

You could put your grid across the diagonal so your incorporate a turn and it also gives more length.

 

[TheMule]

Yes 20X40.

I don't have any cavaletti but could make a set of up to 5 raised poles using jump wings and blocks. Or 4 raised poles and a jump at the end. Plenty of poles to use but not that many wings/blocks.

I quite often just have 2 bounce caveletti slightly in from the track on each long side, or a set of 2 bounces with 3 strides in between them in a straight line and just incorporate them into your canterwork. They don’t need to be high, it's just to develop that bigger step. I also lunge over them and will often use one single cavaletti at G and one at D so the horse starts to look for it’s own pattern

 

[Ambers Echo]

I don't want to build a grid without someone on the ground looking at/adjusting distances, so that will need to wait till I can rope in a willing child.... but I will try the canter circles over poles on a 'clock' face tomorrow.

I'll report back!

 

[LEC]

I don't want to build a grid without someone on the ground looking at/adjusting distances, so that will need to wait till I can rope in a willing child.... but I will try the canter circles over poles on a 'clock' face tomorrow.

I'll report back!

I don’t tend to adjust mine - just normally knock off a yard and build shorter and works fine. Very occasionally I will adjust for a young horse but that’s really rare. Just expect them to keep coming and learn. If you change distances they can’t learn.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Ah well that was interesting!

Warmed up well and actually felt she was a bit more contained in the canter so tried the clock face exercise. Which unravelled pretty rapidly. She lengthened her stride over the first pole, got to the the 2nd too quickly and hit it, lengthened more, and then was just totally all over the place either having to reach for a pole or tripping over one. So within 1.5 circuits it was a horrible mess and I exited! We are clearly not ready for that. I have done 2 poles or jumps on a 20m circle at 12 and 6 and she is fine with those but clearly putting in another 2 poles was a step too far. However I did then use the poles in walk and trot to spiral in and out, coming in or out 1 stripe at a time which actually was really good as the visual cues made the exercise much better than when I do it just in an empty arena. But not much use for the canter-jump development! So then I set up a bounce near the end of the session and lunged over that a few times each way and that was ok so hopefully that will help strenghten her up a bit if I do that a few times more.

Any further tips very welcome. x

 

[maya2008]

Jumping is dressage with fences - you need to spend a lot of time on the flat, and far less time than you might think over the jumps. I was always taught that you need to be able to do a Novice dressage test if you want any success over jumps - 10m circles in balance, adjusting the stride, obedience and calmness, basic lateral work.

My son is just learning to jump a more experienced, bigger mare, and he is going right back to basics - jumping out of trot once a week to build his confidence, then schooling, schooling, schooling to get the canter right. No point going into a jump with a flat canter - all you get is a horrible jump and there is nothing good learned from the experience.

I alternate schooling sessions - one transition session, then one circles and bending.

Transitions can be done out hacking just as much as in the school. Lots and lots and lots of them - halt/walk, walk/trot, trot/canter. Mix and match as much as you can, always half halting before each transition. Then you can progress onto halt/trot and walk/canter after a few weeks, and also onto transitions within the pace (collecting up the trot on the short side of the school and extending a little down the longer sides for example, then in canter). Each transition uses the hind end (both up and down if you are riding correctly). Once your horse is doing this, you should be able to collect them up a little just using your body weight - so they are ready and bouncing under you for the jump.

Circles need to start big, focusing on using the hind end and achieving straightness. Once you can do that at 20m size, you can add in 15m circles and eventually 10m circles. Once your circles are good, you can add in lateral work like shoulder-in and leg yielding to continue to build the hind end and increase suppleness. In my SJ days (pre kids!) my placings came from accurate tight turns more than they ever did from pushing my horse faster. For that, a supple horse with a well developed hind end is a must!

 

[Bernster]

Interesting about the clock face canter poles. They can also be handy to work around and do shapes in/out, joining up 2 at opposite ends rather than all 4 or 2 consecutive if that’s a bit too much of an ask right now.

Having similar issues, I’m working on single canter poles in the corners instead, and a sequence of trot poles in the inside track, which he seems to find easier.

Our two seem scarily similar. Both from more sj backgrounds although in Bertie’s case he was at novice/discovery level +, your girl may have been at a higher level than that. I find it much easier to ride him over a course rather than doing the same exercise on the flat ?‍

 

[LEC]

just realised I have a tonne of exercises I put on EV that might help.

https://www.facebook.com/e.venting.co.uk/photos/a.549605891755210/2631169276932184/?type=3

https://www.facebook.com/e.venting.co.uk/photos/a.549605891755210/2483200111729102/?type=3

https://www.facebook.com/e.venting.co.uk/photos/a.549605891755210/3062977543751353/?type=3