_daisy_
Well-Known Member
Just wondering if anyone knows how long it would be before liver damage would start to show up on a pony who is on permanent bute - 2 sachets a day? also is it the same for using Danilon?
Bute and liver damage
- Thread starter _daisy_
- Start date
malibu211211
Well-Known Member
Don't know how long it would take before the pony started to get side effects but I think Danillon is kinder for them.
Have you tried a Bute substitute?
I use Buteless and the high strength version when the ground is hard for my boy's joint problem.
What's wrong with the pony?
Have you tried a Bute substitute?
I use Buteless and the high strength version when the ground is hard for my boy's joint problem.
What's wrong with the pony?
kcgibson
Well-Known Member
2 sachets daily is quite a lot for a pony. Are you able to reduce the dose at all? My vet said to me that its like us taking ibuprofen and i know for us it can cause liver and stomach problems. Could you speak to your vet about lowering the dose (i know it may not be possible for you to do that), but if you could have him on, say, one sachet every other day, your going to dramatically reduce long term damage (or at least the time to cause the damage). My vet said one sachet daily or every other day is ok (i know vets differ on this view, so prob best to speak to yor vet).
hussar
Well-Known Member
Like kat_g I was told by my vet that one sachet every two days would be fine for my 17yo Arab - he has navicular and is comfortable on that dose. The vet did say that if I found I was having to give him 1.5 or 2 sachets per day, that might be time to call it quits.
_daisy_
Well-Known Member
Sorry im late replying but been out all day.
Right the pony in qustion is 14.3hh Welsh DxDales, is 19yo and has major stifle problems. She is currently having 1 1/2 sachets of danilon a day along with her double dose of joint supplement. She has had cortisone and joint fluid injected into both stifles (the last injections being the end of March) This so far is keeping her comfortable. It is enevitable that we will have her put down before the winter comes as I dont think she could stand up to another winter, but she will enjoy the summer as long as she can.
Ive never thought about the buteless - would it work in extreme conditions like hers?
Right the pony in qustion is 14.3hh Welsh DxDales, is 19yo and has major stifle problems. She is currently having 1 1/2 sachets of danilon a day along with her double dose of joint supplement. She has had cortisone and joint fluid injected into both stifles (the last injections being the end of March) This so far is keeping her comfortable. It is enevitable that we will have her put down before the winter comes as I dont think she could stand up to another winter, but she will enjoy the summer as long as she can.
Ive never thought about the buteless - would it work in extreme conditions like hers?
_daisy_
Well-Known Member
My vet has said to keep her as comfy as possible but also to keep her on as little as possible.
Ive got to go and get some more Danilon for her so will discuss the amounts with him again. he said for her size the maximum she could have was 2 twice a day for a maximum of 2 days then 2 a day after that.
She was on 1 a day but started to walk a bit stiffer in her backend when we had the last bought of rain so I upped her dose and she is walking a lot freer.
The vet (I dont think) wants to give her anymore coritsone injections because nothing is going to help save her. We are just waiting for the inevitable to happen which I dont think will be long, but shes happy with Ebi living out, is holding her condition and has no other problems includig her teeth.
I had wondered though:
what damage would it do in such a short time (im talking towards the end of the summer here, not now) if I were to give her 2-4 sachets a day to make her move even freer and make her last few weeks even more comfy becuase she is going to be PTS, so if she has slight liver damage when the day comes, its not that that is going to kill her?
Ive got to go and get some more Danilon for her so will discuss the amounts with him again. he said for her size the maximum she could have was 2 twice a day for a maximum of 2 days then 2 a day after that.
She was on 1 a day but started to walk a bit stiffer in her backend when we had the last bought of rain so I upped her dose and she is walking a lot freer.
The vet (I dont think) wants to give her anymore coritsone injections because nothing is going to help save her. We are just waiting for the inevitable to happen which I dont think will be long, but shes happy with Ebi living out, is holding her condition and has no other problems includig her teeth.
I had wondered though:
what damage would it do in such a short time (im talking towards the end of the summer here, not now) if I were to give her 2-4 sachets a day to make her move even freer and make her last few weeks even more comfy becuase she is going to be PTS, so if she has slight liver damage when the day comes, its not that that is going to kill her?
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
It wont cause significant damage that quickly, I'd go ahead and up the bute if she needs more to keep her happy.
kcgibson
Well-Known Member
liver damage can build up (not sure this is the case with bute so check with vet) but i know that some poisons can build up and also its like for humans that drink excessively etc, the constant intake of something can build up to cause chronic liver damage. I definitely would not up the bute without discussing the side effects and how long it will take before/if the liver damage effects her. I understand you want to keep her as comfortable as possible but at the same time its not fair to drug her up and make her more poorly (i.e. liver damage) for your sake of keeping her going through summer. Please dont get me wrong, im not disagreeing with what you are doing at all. If it were me, i would find it to be the hardest decision in the world to decide when the time comes to let her go. Im a vet nurse and all too often i see people bringing their pets into work in a terrible state cos they've let them go too far and the owner sometimes says that they wish they had made the decision sooner. Im all for keeping a horse going on bute if she has quality of life and is enjoying her last summer out in the field, all i want to say is please dont keep her going cos you dont want to let her go. I relly hope ive not offended you cos that wasnt my intention at all, i really feel for you and you have all my sympathy and hope you enjoy your remaining time with your horse. Best of luck with her
_daisy_
Well-Known Member
cheers Boss thanks for that. It gives me a bit of relief till I get to speak to my vet
_daisy_
Well-Known Member
dont worry about it you certainly havent offended me (im going to get round to replying to your PM but only just got back in)
Pony is very happy in the field. She doesnt seem to like to trot anymore, but has the odd canter when she feels up to it but shes never really been a one for exerting energy when its not needed, so no change there then! Im passing the vets tomorrow so ill pop in and see if my vet is in and discuss it with him to make sure everything is still ok.
We wont let her go on any longer than she can - i dont want her to be in a position where life is a struggle. Weve set a date of September which is the latest well have her PTS, at this point shell not be getting the bad weather or be needing rugs on (which she hates) so no more things to annoy her and upset her.
It is a very hard decision as weve had her 13 years and shes our first pony.
Pony is very happy in the field. She doesnt seem to like to trot anymore, but has the odd canter when she feels up to it but shes never really been a one for exerting energy when its not needed, so no change there then! Im passing the vets tomorrow so ill pop in and see if my vet is in and discuss it with him to make sure everything is still ok.
We wont let her go on any longer than she can - i dont want her to be in a position where life is a struggle. Weve set a date of September which is the latest well have her PTS, at this point shell not be getting the bad weather or be needing rugs on (which she hates) so no more things to annoy her and upset her.
It is a very hard decision as weve had her 13 years and shes our first pony.