Wagtail
Horse servant
Really sorry about my mix up. Trying to get the poll right. Will try again.
When would you use bute?
When would you use bute?
Bute thread
- Thread starter Wagtail
- Start date
Sukistokes2
Well-Known Member
Whenever needed, however when you get to more then 2 a day for a chronic illness that's when I would start to think about PTS.
siennamum
Well-Known Member
I would only really use Bute for 1 & 2. I might use bute infrequently on an old horse if it were a bit stiff, but if I had to use every day, and more than a sachet, I would PTS or retire. If a retired horse were suffering enough to need pain medication I would PTS.
Pebble101
Well-Known Member
I think the number of sachets a day depends on the size of the horse. My companion horse was on two a day at the end as the vet said it wouldn't be a problem for his size. It gave him a good quality of life for another couple of years. In the end he had a couple of falls, or he rolled, he needed help to get up and that's when I called it a day. He was 34 or 36 - WHW weren't sure!
sarahann1
Well-Known Member
1 bute a day for field retirement is my limit.
9tails
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't bute to ride, possibly two a day for an old horse to be field sound. I'm not sure how I'd feel retiring a young horse longterm on bute though, luckily I haven't been in any situation other than short term acute pain.
Cocorules
Well-Known Member
On phone and cannot see the poll but whenever needed. I have one on a sachet a day long term for her arthritis. She is retired. I will go by vet advice to work out any changes to that.
The Fuzzy Furry
Living in 🦄 🦄 land
Under vets guidance for injury or on a pain management trial, also for oap to be 'field comfy' for a few months.
Never ever to ride anything, except on a pain management trial as discussed with vet for very short term tests.
Never ever to ride anything, except on a pain management trial as discussed with vet for very short term tests.
be positive
Well-Known Member
I have put that I would give it to a young horse to retire to the field but with the view that it would not be long term but a relatively short term attempt to see if it would recover with rest if everything else had been tried, I would also use it very short term on a younger horse to work through a known issue, or as a trial but not without good reason.
I think it can be abused but also that some people seem reluctant to use it feeling that it will somehow mask pain which if used carefully it should not do in the true sense, if they are in real pain that will still show on a low dose, I gave one of mine 5 on a few days when he was injured and he still struggled with acute pain it must have helped but did not take away more than about 1-2/10ths of his lameness.
I would use a low dose to keep an oldie ticking over, either in light work or retirement but would be monitoring them to ensure they really were coping.
I think it can be abused but also that some people seem reluctant to use it feeling that it will somehow mask pain which if used carefully it should not do in the true sense, if they are in real pain that will still show on a low dose, I gave one of mine 5 on a few days when he was injured and he still struggled with acute pain it must have helped but did not take away more than about 1-2/10ths of his lameness.
I would use a low dose to keep an oldie ticking over, either in light work or retirement but would be monitoring them to ensure they really were coping.
PolarSkye
Well-Known Member
Casey76
Well-Known Member
I would be happy to use 1 sachet a day after injury, however if it became long term I would try to find alternatives. I would also use 1 sachet a day to ride, if part of a "rule out" exploration under vet supervision (limited time only).
I would be hesitant to use 2 sachets long term for whatever reason. I certainly would never use 2 to ride, whether young or old.
Any horse which is not field sound on 2 sachets a day (if mechanical lameness ruled out), well, other options should be thought about.
I would be hesitant to use 2 sachets long term for whatever reason. I certainly would never use 2 to ride, whether young or old.
Any horse which is not field sound on 2 sachets a day (if mechanical lameness ruled out), well, other options should be thought about.
Pebble101
Well-Known Member
Out of interest, can I ask why?
blackhor2e
Well-Known Member
I have used bute for short term pain relief and also on my oldie who was retired to ease any pain or stiffness, at the grand age of 32 the consequences of using bute far outweighed the negative effects in my opinion.
Annagain
Well-Known Member
I've used it relatively long term (4 months) on a box rested horse who had a star fracture (think windscreen chip) on his cannon bone, and whose recovery was painfully (or not thanks to the bute!) slow, and shorter term for bruising etc.
I wouldn't use to it to make a lame horse rideable as such, although I did give my old boy half a sachet if he was a bit stiff after a ride (we had to keep him going gently as he got terribly depressed in retirement). This was only on a few occasions and usually after a ride when refused to believe he was 27 and tried acting like a 4 year old only to feel it the next day. Like others have said, If a horse wasn't sound enough to be happy in the field with no pain relief (long term, not if he was retired and had a bang or a bad patch) I'd PTS. I wouldn't be too worried about the side-effects of long term use, rather than keeping a horse going for my sake and not his.
I wouldn't use to it to make a lame horse rideable as such, although I did give my old boy half a sachet if he was a bit stiff after a ride (we had to keep him going gently as he got terribly depressed in retirement). This was only on a few occasions and usually after a ride when refused to believe he was 27 and tried acting like a 4 year old only to feel it the next day. Like others have said, If a horse wasn't sound enough to be happy in the field with no pain relief (long term, not if he was retired and had a bang or a bad patch) I'd PTS. I wouldn't be too worried about the side-effects of long term use, rather than keeping a horse going for my sake and not his.
LadyRascasse
Well-Known Member
Whenever my vet recommends it, So injury, illness or OAP. I had one horse on 4 danilon a day for her last 2 weeks to keep her comfy, not something I would normally do but as it wasn't long term and we knew it was the end she could have as much as she needed.
swampdonkey
Well-Known Member
I look at this a little differently maybe.
I am on long term daily pain relief. With pain relief, I ride, I work, I look after my family. I am a useful member of society
Without, I am in pain, grumpy, and cannot work.
To me it has made this an easier question.
I would give a bute a day to exercise if that helps to keep horse supple and moving.
Definately give to aid a comfortable retirement.
Only when more is needed to keep comfy in the field then I think its time to look to the alternative.
I am on long term daily pain relief. With pain relief, I ride, I work, I look after my family. I am a useful member of society
Without, I am in pain, grumpy, and cannot work.
To me it has made this an easier question.
I would give a bute a day to exercise if that helps to keep horse supple and moving.
Definately give to aid a comfortable retirement.
Only when more is needed to keep comfy in the field then I think its time to look to the alternative.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Thanks for all the replies so far. Some vastly different opinions.
Merrymoles
Well-Known Member
Difficult poll as so much depends on the individual horse and circumstances. I've gone for the up to two a day for both ridden and retired option, really because I do not know enough about the effects of using more over a long term, although I have heard all the horror stories.
I do think horses can be ridden on bute as proper exercise can be so beneficial for the conditions causing the pain in the first place by maintaining mobility and keeping weight down. I look at it from swampdonkey's point of view too.
A friend is currently concerned that her old boy may need a bute to be comfortable ridden (after months of treatment for arthritis). If he were mine, I would be comfortable doing that but obviously it is her decision and, although I know the horse and circumstances well, I don't know them anywhere near as well as the owner does.
I also have a dog on long-term pain relief for arthritis and I wouldn't dream of not walking him so I could stop the pain relief. The love of his life is walks so, if he needs the pain relief, I will keep on, even if it shortens his life in the long term. I would rather have a happy dog for a shorter time than a sad one forever.
I do think horses can be ridden on bute as proper exercise can be so beneficial for the conditions causing the pain in the first place by maintaining mobility and keeping weight down. I look at it from swampdonkey's point of view too.
A friend is currently concerned that her old boy may need a bute to be comfortable ridden (after months of treatment for arthritis). If he were mine, I would be comfortable doing that but obviously it is her decision and, although I know the horse and circumstances well, I don't know them anywhere near as well as the owner does.
I also have a dog on long-term pain relief for arthritis and I wouldn't dream of not walking him so I could stop the pain relief. The love of his life is walks so, if he needs the pain relief, I will keep on, even if it shortens his life in the long term. I would rather have a happy dog for a shorter time than a sad one forever.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
I'd have no problem keeping a retired horse on a maintenance level of bute if the horse needed it to be comfortable. No probs using it for a horse recovering from some problem, either acute or chronic. I'd be cautious of using bute for any length of time on a pony unless said pony was old and retired anyway. Basically I'm fine with using bute for any unridden horse. I would never have any of my ridden horses on bute however. They have to be sound 100% or I wouldn't consider riding them.
mynutmeg
Well-Known Member
wouldn't be keen on using more than 2 a day to keep even field sound as by that point they're getting past being comfortable. I would be comfortable using it to keep an oldie in very light work as often a walk out under saddle several times a week is beneficial in keeping them a little fitter which helps support the joints etc
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to add I would never use bute now ,we are a Danilon yard now but I answered the poll for my use of Danilon.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
We had an elderly mare on bute for a couple of years (retired) but we had to stop it and give her a break periodically, as it made her tired. I wouldn't give bute long-term to allow a horse to be ridden. I don't understand the 2 sachets part of the poll, as it depends on the size of the horse/pony how much is given.
EquiEquestrian556
Well-Known Member
We used it short term when one of our veteran Welsh Sec. As got chronic Laminitis for her comfort.
EquiEquestrian556
Well-Known Member
We also used Danilon.
Hexx
Well-Known Member
Mine is on 1 bute a day and in ridden work.
He is 24 and has navicular/arthritis. He is a very big boy - and my vet has likened the 1 bute to a couple of paracetamol a day to keep him comfy and ticking over.
He mainly hacks 2-3 days a week, and has maybe one day in the school, but only for 15-20 mins. Hacking is either road work nannying other horses, or off-road. He still has the capacity to behave like a 4-year old and do a 180 and tank off!
I feel that it is better to keep him moving at his age, keeping him supple and interested in life. He loves his hacking and goes out with a spring in his step. He has regular checks on his liver function and general blood work.
I am on long term pain relief for sciatica - the pills keep me moving and able to function. I think it is the same for my boy.
He is 24 and has navicular/arthritis. He is a very big boy - and my vet has likened the 1 bute to a couple of paracetamol a day to keep him comfy and ticking over.
He mainly hacks 2-3 days a week, and has maybe one day in the school, but only for 15-20 mins. Hacking is either road work nannying other horses, or off-road. He still has the capacity to behave like a 4-year old and do a 180 and tank off!
I feel that it is better to keep him moving at his age, keeping him supple and interested in life. He loves his hacking and goes out with a spring in his step. He has regular checks on his liver function and general blood work.
I am on long term pain relief for sciatica - the pills keep me moving and able to function. I think it is the same for my boy.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Me too. I just thought that everyone had used bute at some time and therefore could answer the poll. But it applies to danilon too.
leggs
Well-Known Member
i didn't enter the poll because my option; I would never use bute again, wasn't in there.
I'm not opposed to using bute, it is a cheap and effective painkiller, but, nearly 3 yrs ago bute caused a snowball effect in one of my horses (worse than the cause it was treating) since then IF i ever needed a painkiller I use equioxx (i actually use previcoxx for dogs- same thing but in tablets which delute perfectly in water) this is a coxxII inhabitor, more gentle on the stomach than bute.
The equioxx/previcoxx I only used in combination with bad eye infection and when my horse was (laser)operated on on permanent soft palate displacement.
the reason I hate bute; because one of my horses that was cast in her stable after a colic episode (sand) reacted very badly (in hindsight) developing ulcers. The ulcers gave colic every other week and a permanent tummy ache which resulted in her not lying down to sleep anymore. so once a forthnight she'd collapse into remsleep... and not controlling when or where she would ly down made me install a hoisting beam in her stable....this would help when I was Lucky enough it happened in the stable...and not out in the snow that when she'd wake up I would have a crane ready to hoist her up (once she only had a temp of 36 when up). It was a terrible nightmare from which I thought we would never wake up. I had camera's installed in the stable, friends/familiy watched 24/7 hours a day, warning me if she was about to collapse.
I moved heaven and earth to get to the bottom of the sleeping disorder, finally contacting a vet in USA who had been researching for 20yrs. ?Xrays, bloodwork, scans of overies, bladder, I was ready to contact a witchdokter who, if he told me so I would've danced naked around the stables every night i would have done it !!
but it was ulcers from the bute...after 1.5wks of treatment she began to sleep again....and our troubles were over. So no bute for my horses ever again.
I'm not opposed to using bute, it is a cheap and effective painkiller, but, nearly 3 yrs ago bute caused a snowball effect in one of my horses (worse than the cause it was treating) since then IF i ever needed a painkiller I use equioxx (i actually use previcoxx for dogs- same thing but in tablets which delute perfectly in water) this is a coxxII inhabitor, more gentle on the stomach than bute.
The equioxx/previcoxx I only used in combination with bad eye infection and when my horse was (laser)operated on on permanent soft palate displacement.
the reason I hate bute; because one of my horses that was cast in her stable after a colic episode (sand) reacted very badly (in hindsight) developing ulcers. The ulcers gave colic every other week and a permanent tummy ache which resulted in her not lying down to sleep anymore. so once a forthnight she'd collapse into remsleep... and not controlling when or where she would ly down made me install a hoisting beam in her stable....this would help when I was Lucky enough it happened in the stable...and not out in the snow that when she'd wake up I would have a crane ready to hoist her up (once she only had a temp of 36 when up). It was a terrible nightmare from which I thought we would never wake up. I had camera's installed in the stable, friends/familiy watched 24/7 hours a day, warning me if she was about to collapse.
I moved heaven and earth to get to the bottom of the sleeping disorder, finally contacting a vet in USA who had been researching for 20yrs. ?Xrays, bloodwork, scans of overies, bladder, I was ready to contact a witchdokter who, if he told me so I would've danced naked around the stables every night i would have done it !!
but it was ulcers from the bute...after 1.5wks of treatment she began to sleep again....and our troubles were over. So no bute for my horses ever again.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
That's your vets fault she /he should have been on to that and got the horse on gastrogard the moment you saw symptoms .
There's also no way of knowing the horse did not have ulcers at the start of treatment unless you had it scoped before treatment.
leggs
Well-Known Member
@goldenstar; what are the symtoms according to you ? girthyness, off her food, losing weight, scruffiness in the coat? none of this ever applied to my horse, and It wasn't only just a vet, I had her in several (2)horse clinics (one of which people come to from UK, Germany and France because it is so good )to sort out what was wrong. All I got back is that is "she's got arthritis" (yeah, tell me something I didn't know 23years ago- another long story) but they could never explain why she would roll in the mud like all my other horses several times a day and had absolutely no difficulty in getting up- because that is the party line when a horse of (then) 23 and 18.1hh lied down too long and in awkward places.
i've posted this before, but this is her in with severe ulcers
I certainly blame the (belgian) vet at that time for not wanting to try a GG cure even though i'd asked for it to tick off the list!. So...In the end I got the same stuff from www.abler.com and our problems were gone!
i've posted this before, but this is her in with severe ulcers
I certainly blame the (belgian) vet at that time for not wanting to try a GG cure even though i'd asked for it to tick off the list!. So...In the end I got the same stuff from www.abler.com and our problems were gone!
LadyGascoyne
Well-Known Member
Can't see the poll because I'm on my phone.
Bute is illegal in South Africa.
I would use pain relief while recovering from injury/illness. I may use it to maintain an older horse or one with a chronic problem but it would depend on the horse. I would have to be convinced that the horse was actually comfortable and had a decent quality of life. I wouldn't ride a horse that needed pain relief.
Bute is illegal in South Africa.
I would use pain relief while recovering from injury/illness. I may use it to maintain an older horse or one with a chronic problem but it would depend on the horse. I would have to be convinced that the horse was actually comfortable and had a decent quality of life. I wouldn't ride a horse that needed pain relief.