Bute Trial turned the BFG into a raving lunatic! Why?

Kallibear

Kallibear

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 July 2008
Messages
4,618
Location
Edinburgh
Visit site
The normally gentle, quite and laid back, safe, big horse has turned into a raving lunatic :eek:

Kalli hasn't been right for a while Thoughts and ideas on cause of stroppy, stiff, one-side rhinosaurous *long ramble*
but we've not been able to pinpoint why. Still can't. Been for xrays and nerve blocks and can't find anything. Hocks fine, no kissing spine, not consistantly lame enough to do a work up (or even decide if she's actually lame or not) But she has a short term painkiller trial (massive dose of flunixin and morphine) and it make a big difference to her way of going. She was then retested the next morning but continued to behave herself after the painkillers had worn off.

Since there's not much else left to try at the moment (can't do bonescans after injections incase the bone was pricked and creates a "false hotspot" ) she's been sent home on an huge dose of bute and told to be worked as normal to see if it makes a difference and wasn't just a fluke.

Well, she now moves like a normal horse (canters well on both reins, bends properly, forwards and enthusiastic) BUT she's turned into a rodeo nutjob! Rearing, broncing, plunging and generally being a right menace, to the extent where it's verging on unsafe to ride her without 20mins of hard lunging first! :eek:

But WHY? She's no longer in pain (at 4 packets of bute a day she shouldn't be) and she doesn't look like it's pain related. Is this just her true self being reveiled? (bloody hope not!) Is it just because she can?

She's got until monday to start behaving herself again otherwise it's back to the vets. I don't really want to tell them that yes, it's made her free moving and athletic but it's also blown her brains :o

Has anyone else's horse had a bute trial? How did it affect them?
 
it does seem to suggest that she is or has been in chronic pain for a very long time, and that the painrelief from the bute is causing the change in her.

have you had her test for ESPM, as she has draft in her this might be the cause of the shuffling etc

google ESPM and draft and you will find loades of information
 
it does sound like your horse is feeling so well at the moment and not in any kind of pain or discomfort.
maybe she was uncomfortable before and it just stopped her from being so free in movement.

i'd go back to the vets and tell them how she is being at the moment. maybe they will suggest reducing the amount of bute for a week and see how that works.
 
I agree with the above, maybe the pain she has been in has been keeping her 'relatively calm' but now she has none she is endulging herself.

i take it she is turned out??? If not then i would say to do that and leave her out for a good few days.

if you need to lunge then lunge I am sure she will come back eventually once she ahs it out of her system :)
 
Is she on any anti-ulcer treatment with the bute?nsaids can cause ulcers...

Id be inclined to say its more likely she's just feeling well in herself though,
now she's free from feeling pain or stiffness.Particularly if she does settle after being lunged...
 
Aru said:
Is she on any anti-ulcer treatment with the bute?nsaids can cause ulcers...
Click to expand...

This is incredibly uncommon, even with long courses of high dose NSAIDs. The perception of NSAIDs as causing ulcers is true in humans and dogs, but much less so in horses. Much of the reason this risk is overblown is due to a rubbish study(now forced to be retracted) and dishonest marketing campaign (now forced to be retracted) by a large drug company making a certain common oral NSAID that USED to be advertised as safer for gastric health.

The most common side effects of NSAID use are colitis and kidney damage. Massively less common are caecal impactions, liver problems and gastric ulcers.
 
Oh sorry I stand corrected then.Thanks :)

4 years in and I still feel like I know nothing or get confused between species!! Eeep!
I think a major overhaul of my drugs knowledge is in order.
 
Kallibear said:
Well, she now moves like a normal horse (canters well on both reins, bends properly, forwards and enthusiastic) BUT she's turned into a rodeo nutjob! Rearing, broncing, plunging and generally being a right menace, to the extent where it's verging on unsafe to ride her without 20mins of hard lunging first! :eek:

But WHY? She's no longer in pain
Click to expand...

I've recommended Riaflex Complete to a number of people with arthritic older horses - two of them complained that they had to stop giving it because it turned their quiet old horses quite bonkers!:D Proof that it worked!

Your bute trial is the same. 4 bute is quite a decent dose and your mare feels a completely different horse - she's free! Of course she's going to celebrate (you could compare it to a horse going out in the field after a period of confinement!)

Give her plenty of turnout so she can celebrate in the field!! I would assume that there is no intention to keep her on this level for long (it sounds like she doesn't need it.) I would talk to the vet and cut her down to two a day - there's no point giving her more than she needs - although of course bute is not JUST a pain killer, it's an anti-inflammatory and will actually TREAT whatever it is that's caused her discomfort. You can then experiment in finding the right level to keep her comfortable.

With luck, once she gets over the excitement of being pain free, her behaviour will settle down!
 
Your mare is unshod,yes? Guessing this from previous posts. Unsure if she has other physical issues.
Might be worth trying a set of shoes on for 4-6weeks? See if she's better then? It won't kill the whole barefoot thing she's developed but will let you know if this is the reason behind her pain.
 
Her front lameness started when she was shod a set for studs over the summer. Better since she had them off again but still not quite back to how she was before :( Made no difference to the rest of her issues. Woudn't have expected it anyways: she's a serious barefoot horse who will happily literally gallop up rubble tracks.

JanetGeorge: this is just a bute trial, not long term bute. Idea behind it is she was so much better after the morphine and flunixin at the hospital but they could't find anything on xray and she's so mildy lame they can't do a work up on it. So 2weeks of bute to make sure the first painkiller trial wasn't just a fluke and her issues are behavioural. Now it's clearly made a difference she'll be going back for the vets to head scratch a bit more, with possible bone scans. I am rather hoping it might fix whatever the problem was though...........

BUT, to add to the problems: first couple of days were just excitment I think, but she's now she's started to rear and lash out with the front legs when you put your leg on too strongly :( Serious '******* off' rears. Started only two days into the treatment so I don't think stomach ulcers would be new, which suggests maybe they're an old problem? She's very displayed any other classic 'ulcer' type symptoms before though.
 
Ovaries? Coming into the right time of year for an ovary problem to start showing up, particularly I am thinking of ovaries due to the rearing when legs put on etc.
 
Kallibear said:
Her front lameness started when she was shod a set for studs over the summer. Better since she had them off again but still not quite back to how she was before
Click to expand...

So one would obviously be thinking foot - possibly a concussion-type thing.:confused:

So 2weeks of bute to make sure the first painkiller trial wasn't just a fluke and her issues are behavioural. Now it's clearly made a difference she'll be going back for the vets to head scratch a bit more, with possible bone scans. I am rather hoping it might fix whatever the problem was though...........
Click to expand...

Mmm - if it's inflammatory, 2 weeks at that level may well be curative. If it's arthritic I would expect it to take rather longer.

BUT, to add to the problems: first couple of days were just excitment I think, but she's now she's started to rear and lash out with the front legs when you put your leg on too strongly :( Serious '******* off' rears. Started only two days into the treatment so I don't think stomach ulcers would be new, which suggests maybe they're an old problem? She's very displayed any other classic 'ulcer' type symptoms before though.
Click to expand...

That certainly sounds more behavioural - although as SusieT suggests, it COULD be an ovary problem. The first season of the year is often rather shorter - but more intense - than seasons during the year - and persistent (haemorrhagic) follicles are more common at the start and end of the year too.

How long have you had her??
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top